From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: lm@mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 17:32:20 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] the sin of buffering [offshoot of excise process from a
 pipeline]
In-Reply-To: <201407152343.s6FNhnUT001960@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu>
References: <201407152343.s6FNhnUT001960@coolidge.cs.dartmouth.edu>
Message-ID: <20140716003220.GA24974@mcvoy.com>

I dunno, we have a distributed source management system that uses a lot
of network I/O.  We've carefully layered stdio on top of it because we
had many cases where it was a performance bummer.

Personally, I've come to really love stdio, at least our version of it.
Want your stream compressed or uncompressed?

	fpush(&stdin, fopen_vzip(stdin, "r"));

Want your stream integrity checked with a CRC per block and an XOR block
at the end so you can correct any single block error?

	fpush(&stdout, fopen_crc(stdout, "w", 0, 0));

I'm a performance guy for the most part and while read/write seem like 
the fastest way to move stuff around that's only true for really nicely
formed data, page sized blocks or bigger.  Fine for benchmarking but if
you want to approach that performance with poorly formed data, like 
small blocks, different sized blocks, that buffering layer smooths 
things out.  You pay an extra bcopy() but that's typically lost in 
the noise.

I used to hate the idea of stdio but working in real world applications
where I can't control the size of the data coming at me, yeah, I've 
come to love stdio.  It's pretty darn useful.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 07:43:49PM -0400, Doug McIlroy wrote:
> Yes, an evil necessary to get things going. 
> The very definition of original sin.
> 
> Doug
> 
> Larry McVoy wrote:
> 
> >>>> For stdio, of course, one would need fsplice(3), which must flush the
> >>>> in-process buffers--penance for stdio's original sin of said buffering.
> 
> >>> Err, why is buffering data in the process a sin? (Or was this just a
> >>> humourous aside?)
>  
> >> Process A spawns process B, which reads stdin with buffering. B gets
> >> all it deserves from stdin and exits. What's left in the buffer,
> >> intehded for A, is lost. Sinful.
>  
> > It really depends on what you want.  That buffering is a big win for
> > some use cases.  Even on today's processors reading a byte at a time via
> > read(2) is costly.  Like 5000x more costly on the laptop I'm typing on:

-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm