[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[Warren Toomey]

We are going to need some historical uucp maps so that we can construct
our simulated uucp network which bears some resemblance to the past.
There is a 1984 map on pages 7 to 14 of
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/AUUGN/AUUGN-V05.4.pdf

As Dave mentioned, we need some key sites like ihnp4, cbosgd etc.
What other key sites? Any volunteers to run some of them?

	Warren
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[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[Warren Toomey]

On Thu, Mar 09, 2017 at 08:54:42AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> There is a 1984 map on pages 7 to 14 of
> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/AUUGN/AUUGN-V05.4.pdf

In ASCII at http://www.redace.org/html/logical_usenet_map_1984.html
	Warren
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[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[John Floren]

Looks like there are a lot of key systems, at least two dozen... for
instance for my lanl-a node to get to decvax, we'd need cmcl2,
philabs, and mcnc. (decvax!mcnc!philabs!cmcl2!lanl-a was the first
short-ish route I could see)

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 09, 2017 at 08:54:42AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
>> There is a 1984 map on pages 7 to 14 of
>> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/AUUGN/AUUGN-V05.4.pdf
>
> In ASCII at http://www.redace.org/html/logical_usenet_map_1984.html
>         Warren

[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[Dave Horsfall]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017, Warren Toomey wrote:

> There is a 1984 map on pages 7 to 14 of
> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/AUUGN/AUUGN-V05.4.pdf

Ah, that brings back memories...  It's nice to see my old PDPs "csu40" and 
"csu60" there.

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[Clem Cole]

I was think about your map question, I realized the person you need to rope
in is Ches.   He did a lot work mapping the uucp network back in the day.
He even had really cool maps printed up, which I think I might still have
one of them.  But he had some really great ones.  If he still has them,
those would be great for your 50th.
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[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[Dave Horsfall]

On Wed, 8 Mar 2017, Ron Natalie wrote:

> In addition, NNTP was, I thimk, in swing there, so some of those links 
> didn't use UUCP either.

In Australia, we didn't use UUCP at all; it was all ACSnet (or the 
commercial MHSnet).  That same issue of AUUGN describes it.

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

On Wed, 8 Mar 2017, Erik E. Fair wrote:

> See the Google archive of comp.mail.maps where the UUCP map
> (connection) pathalias data was regularly published for E-mail
> routing purposes. People stopped making ASCII maps for the UUCP
> network because it was too richly connected (too hard, too messy),
> and because the sites included lat/long location data in their map
> entries specifically for making geographic maps automatically.

Probably the closest thing you'll ever get to an "authoritative" map would 
be to hack pathalias to generate output that can be fed to dot.  If you 
include the pathalias link weights in the output, I'm guessing Graphviz 
could do a reasonable job of generating a traffic-weighted map (i.e. 
something that clearly pointed out the major relay hubs).

...!canada!lyndon

[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[Erik E. Fair]

See the Google archive of comp.mail.maps where the UUCP map
(connection) pathalias data was regularly published for E-mail
routing purposes. People stopped making ASCII maps for the UUCP
network because it was too richly connected (too hard, too messy),
and because the sites included lat/long location data in their map
entries specifically for making geographic maps automatically.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mail.maps/Y_XHTvY8VJA

I wrote the specification which included lat/long coordinates with
precisely that in mind, though it was some years before it happened.

Find a related story about pathalias and use of the Internet for UUCP in

https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-operate-a-supercomputer/answer/Erik-Fair

	Erik

[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[Ron Natalie]

In addition, NNTP was, I thimk, in swing there, so some of those links
didn't use  UUCP either.

-----Original Message-----
From: TUHS [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf Of Norman Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:33 PM
To: tuhs at tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

Warning Toomey:

  In ASCII at http://www.redace.org/html/logical_usenet_map_1984.html

===

That's no UUCP map.  It's a USENET map: a map of netnews propagation.  No,
they're not the same at all: many places that used UUCP to exchange mail
didn't participate in netnews.

[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[Warren Toomey]

> Warning Toomey:
>   In ASCII at http://www.redace.org/html/logical_usenet_map_1984.html
 
On Wed, Mar 08, 2017 at 09:33:27PM -0500, Norman Wilson wrote:
> That's no UUCP map.  It's a USENET map: a map of netnews
> propagation.  No, they're not the same at all: many places
> that used UUCP to exchange mail didn't participate in
> netnews.

Ah, my bad. Can we still uses it as a basis for reconstructed topology?
	Warren
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[TUHS] Historical uucp maps?

[Norman Wilson]

Warning Toomey:

  In ASCII at http://www.redace.org/html/logical_usenet_map_1984.html

===

That's no UUCP map.  It's a USENET map: a map of netnews
propagation.  No, they're not the same at all: many places
that used UUCP to exchange mail didn't participate in
netnews.

In particular I see a site I used to run with none of its
important mail links like ihnp4, and only a link to a
system I don't remember at all.  I had left that site
a few weeks before that map was published, but I stayed
in touch with the folks there; had all the mail links
been torn down I'd have known.  Had someone decided it
was worth while dipping a toe into netnews, though
(something I never bothered with) I might not.

In fact I suspect it would be difficult to find
believable maps for UUCP except amongst major forwarders.
At its peak it was an extremely informal network, with
lots of links that weren't published anywhere because
people at site A wanted to keep in touch with those at
sites B and C but didn't want to pay the bills to
forward mail between B and C, let alone between those
sites and places twelve time zones away.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON