[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Noel Chiappa]

    > From: Jason Stevens

    > it also appears that AOS was the router backbone of the NSFNet once
    > they started to migrate off of the IMPs

Say what? IMPs were only every used in the ARPANET (and networks built by BBN
for private clients using that technology).

The first routers used in the NSFNET were things called Fuzzballs - PDP-11's
running software from Dave Mills, driving 56KB lines.

They eventually decided they needed to step up a level, and a consortium
involving IBM won, with IBM RT PC's running AIX driving T1 lines.

	Noel

[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Ron Natalie]

Well, the other big network that used imps was the MILNET.    I had the
dubious distinction of having the only router (other than the "mail
bridges") that was on the MILNET after they split the ARPANET.
And indeed, the NSA, BRL, and a few others had IMP based systems (we even
had TACs at BRL).

> The first routers used in the NSFNET were things called Fuzzballs -
PDP-11's running software from Dave Mills, driving 56KB lines.

Dave was certainly PI on that project, but a lot of the work was done by
Mike Petry and Louis Mamakos at the Unviersity of Maryland.   Cornell (Scott
Brim) had the operational responsibility to keep the initial NSFNet backbone
going
	
>  They eventually decided they needed to step up a level, and a consortium
involving IBM won, with IBM RT PC's running AIX driving T1 lines.

MERIT was the prime contracator.   They indeed were backed by IBM (Jakob
Recktor primarily).   In fact, the computers didn't drive the T1 lines
directly.   Fearing their commo cards weren't fast enough to drive a T1 at
full speed, they used muxes to break the T1 into 500K lines and set up some
virtual circuits to provide a bit more interesting networking technogy.

I was actually on the committee that evaluated those bids.   I just found
all that stuff filed away when I moved recently.    There were six proposals
considered.   Of the six, three were thought to be actually implementable:
UCAR (with BBN), MERIT (with IBM), and NyserNet (Cisco?   I'm having a hard
time remembering).    There were also three other proposals including one
from DEC which really wasn't all that well thought out (I don't recall the
other two).    The pane was me, Jake Fienler (SRI NIC), Jon Postel, and a
few others.    My old boss from BRL, Steve Wulff, was the NSF honcho in
charge.   He went on to Cisco after his stint at NSF.

I can remember that after the technical eval, we looked at the bid prices.
If I remember it was $45MM for Nyser, $30MM for UCAR, and $15MM for Merit.

[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Ron Natalie]

Some more came back to me.  It was Hans Werner-Braun at Merit and it wasn't
AIX, it was AOS (essentially, an educational only 4BSD variant for the
RS/6000).

-Ron

[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Charles H Sauer]

I've refrained from jumping into AIX & RT/PC discussions on TUHS. It seems 
more appropriate to summarize AIX history than try to correct or clarify 
specifics out of context.

I wrote about 5 pages, got feedback, revised accordingly, and posted at
https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the-very-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/.

Charlie 

[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Clem Cole]

Thank you Charlie.

Clem

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Charles H Sauer <sauer at technologists.com>
wrote:

> I've refrained from jumping into AIX & RT/PC discussions on TUHS. It seems
> more appropriate to summarize AIX history than try to correct or clarify
> specifics out of context.
>
> I wrote about 5 pages, got feedback, revised accordingly, and posted at
> https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-
> at-the-very-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/.
>
> Charlie
>
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[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Larry McVoy]

Anyone else having trouble loading this page?  Tried with/without the
trailing dot.  Connection timed out.  Looks like a DNS problem to me.

> https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the-very-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/.

[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Cory Smelosky]

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017, at 12:14, Larry McVoy wrote:
> Anyone else having trouble loading this page?  Tried with/without the
> trailing dot.  Connection timed out.  Looks like a DNS problem to me.
> 
> > https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the-very-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/.

Interesting.  Loads here!
-- 
  Cory Smelosky
  b4 at gewt.net

[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Jason Stevens]

http://archive.is/yzYFj

I can still hit the original fine, although I have issues with some blogs as people seem to love to block all of SE Asia.

On March 10, 2017 4:14:49 AM GMT+08:00, Larry McVoy <lm at mcvoy.com> wrote:
>Anyone else having trouble loading this page?  Tried with/without the
>trailing dot.  Connection timed out.  Looks like a DNS problem to me.
>
>>
>https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the-very-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Dave Horsfall]

On March 10, 2017 4:14:49 AM GMT+08:00, Larry McVoy <lm at mcvoy.com> wrote:

> Anyone else having trouble loading this page?  Tried with/without the
> trailing dot.  Connection timed out.  Looks like a DNS problem to me.
>  https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the-very-beg
> inning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/.

Works OK here from Australia.

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Jason Stevens]

Wow thanks for such a detailed reply!

On March 10, 2017 3:41:57 AM GMT+08:00, Charles H Sauer <sauer at technologists.com> wrote:
>I've refrained from jumping into AIX & RT/PC discussions on TUHS. It
>seems 
>more appropriate to summarize AIX history than try to correct or
>clarify 
>specifics out of context.
>
>I wrote about 5 pages, got feedback, revised accordingly, and posted at
>https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the-very-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/.
>
>Charlie 

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Dan Cross]

Wow, this is really cool, Charlie. It puts a lot of stuff in perspective.

I wonder if you might add a bit more detail about the BSD ports? That's
what we ran on our RTs; I seem to recall that product was only available to
educational institutions and was referred to as AOS: "Academic Operating
System." I do recall that it came with NFS, and possibly AFS version 2? It
seemed to be approximately 4.3-Tahoe based. The AFS bit is hazy....

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Charles H Sauer <sauer at technologists.com>
wrote:

> I've refrained from jumping into AIX & RT/PC discussions on TUHS. It seems
> more appropriate to summarize AIX history than try to correct or clarify
> specifics out of context.
>
> I wrote about 5 pages, got feedback, revised accordingly, and posted at
> https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-
> at-the-very-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/.
>
> Charlie
>
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[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Charles H Sauer]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
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Dan,

I’m not sure how well I can answer, but I’ll try.

I think the responsible organization was known as ACIS (ACademic Information Systems??), with BSD work primarily staffed in the Palo Alto Scientific Center. Back then IBM had “scientific centers” separate from the Research Division – my main contact was with Cambridge, MA and Palo Alto centers, but I think there were 13 centers world wide.

I think you’re correct that it was called AOS and likely correct that it was only available to academic institutions. I was primarily aware of usage at Brown, CMU and MIT.

The sole RT I had with AOS was at my house, and I didn’t have Internet access at the office, much less at home, so though I was in the thick of the distributed filesystem work, didn’t do any of it hands on on AOS.

I was technically responsible for getting the NFS license for AIX and I think you’re right that ACIS put NFS on AOS once we had the license, but would have forgotten that if you hadn’t reminded me. I think the license agreement was put in place in the second half of 1988, but that could easily be off by months or longer.

Certainly much of the Andrew work in general and AFS specifically was done with AOS. I assume that all AFS versions were made available on AOS as soon as Kazar et al thought they were ready.

Charlie

From: Dan Cross 
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 9:27 PM
To: Charles H Sauer 
Cc: TUHS 
Subject: Re: [TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

Wow, this is really cool, Charlie. It puts a lot of stuff in perspective. 

I wonder if you might add a bit more detail about the BSD ports? That's what we ran on our RTs; I seem to recall that product was only available to educational institutions and was referred to as AOS: "Academic Operating System." I do recall that it came with NFS, and possibly AFS version 2? It seemed to be approximately 4.3-Tahoe based. The AFS bit is hazy....

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Charles H Sauer <sauer at technologists.com> wrote:

  I've refrained from jumping into AIX & RT/PC discussions on TUHS. It seems more appropriate to summarize AIX history than try to correct or clarify specifics out of context.

  I wrote about 5 pages, got feedback, revised accordingly, and posted at
  https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the-very-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/.

  Charlie 

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[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Jason Stevens]

2nd, as it also appears that AOS was the router backbone of the NSFNet once they started to migrate off of the IMPs

On March 10, 2017 11:27:40 AM GMT+08:00, Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com> wrote:
>Wow, this is really cool, Charlie. It puts a lot of stuff in
>perspective.
>
>I wonder if you might add a bit more detail about the BSD ports? That's
>what we ran on our RTs; I seem to recall that product was only
>available
>to educational institutions and was referred to as AOS: "Academic
>Operating System." I do recall that it came with NFS, and possibly AFS
>version 2? It seemed to be approximately 4.3-Tahoe based. The AFS bit
>is
>hazy....
>
>On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Charles H Sauer <
>sauer at technologists.com <mailto:sauer at technologists.com> > wrote:
>
>
>I've refrained from jumping into AIX & RT/PC discussions on TUHS. It
>seems more appropriate to summarize AIX history than try to correct or
>clarify specifics out of context.
>
>I wrote about 5 pages, got feedback, revised accordingly, and posted at
>https://notes.technologists.co
><https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the-very
>-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-versions/>
>m/notes/2017/03/08/lets-start-at-the-very-beginning-801-romp-rtpc-aix-ve
>rsions/.
>
>Charlie 

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Jacob Goense]

On 2017-03-10 13:09, Jason Stevens wrote:
> 2nd, as it also appears that AOS was the router backbone of the NSFNet
> once they started to migrate off of the IMPs

You are mixing up starwars characters :-)
The AOS boxen replaced the Fuzzballs.

[TUHS] RT/PC-centric AIX history

[Jason Stevens]

Oops imps, fuzzballs then AOS...  That reminds me I wish I had dumped Roms when I had access to a Cisco AGS..  

That almost reminds me to ask about the whole "open" Stanford 68000 board that became the Cisco AGS, and SUN 100.. and I think SGi 1000

On March 10, 2017 9:13:06 PM GMT+08:00, Jacob Goense <dugo at xs4all.nl> wrote:
>On 2017-03-10 13:09, Jason Stevens wrote:
>> 2nd, as it also appears that AOS was the router backbone of the
>NSFNet
>> once they started to migrate off of the IMPs
>
>You are mixing up starwars characters :-)
>The AOS boxen replaced the Fuzzballs.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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