From: lm@mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy)
Subject: [TUHS] The evolution of Unix facilities and architecture
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 17:21:12 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170512002112.GR4341@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <017001d2cab1$16bcf4b0$4436de10$@ronnatalie.com>
Yeah, I get ordered writes, I taught a CS course at Stanford and I made
my students learn all about them. I'm a UFS guy, so far as I know I'm
the last guy to push UFS/FFS forward (which is sort of sad).
The Linux stuff is better. It just is. And we should all respect that,
I know we sit around and love on ancient Unix, and believe me, I love
that stuff it changed the world, but we should respect people who have
moved it past what Unix did. And I think Linux moved the file system
past what Unix did.
--lm
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 07:48:27PM -0400, Ron Natalie wrote:
> Ordered writes go back to the original BSD fast file system, no? I seem
> to recall that when we switched from our V6/V7 disks,
> the filesystem got a lot more stable in crashes.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TUHS [mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf Of Dave Horsfall
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 7:47 PM
> To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] The evolution of Unix facilities and architecture
>
> On Thu, 11 May 2017, Larry McVoy wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Try the same thing with Linux. The file system will come back,
> > starting with, I believe, ext2.
>
> That's a journalled FS, isn't it? In which case the transactions get
> replayed.
>
> > My belief is that Linux orders writes such that while you may lose
> > data (as in, a process created a file, the OS said it was OK, but that
> > file will not be in the file system after a crash), but the rest of
> > the file system will be consistent. I think it's as if you powered
> > off the machine a few seconds earlier than you actually did, some
> > stuff is in flight and until they can write stuff out in the proper
> > order you may lose data on a hard reset.
>
> And FreeBSD (at least) has been doing ordered writes for quite some time.
>
> --
> Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
> suffer."
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-05-12 0:21 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 77+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-05-11 14:07 Noel Chiappa
2017-05-11 14:21 ` Larry McVoy
2017-05-11 16:17 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-11 17:11 ` Michael Kjörling
2017-05-11 21:44 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-05-11 22:06 ` Warner Losh
2017-05-12 6:24 ` Hellwig Geisse
2017-05-12 21:12 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-05-12 23:25 ` Hellwig Geisse
2017-05-11 16:15 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-11 16:52 ` Warner Losh
2017-05-11 17:12 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-11 20:37 ` Ron Natalie
2017-05-11 22:25 ` Larry McVoy
2017-05-11 22:30 ` Ron Natalie
2017-05-11 23:47 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-05-11 23:48 ` Ron Natalie
2017-05-12 0:21 ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2017-05-12 2:42 ` Warner Losh
2017-05-12 0:16 ` Larry McVoy
2017-05-12 1:41 ` Wesley Parish
2017-05-12 1:05 ` Toby Thain
2017-05-12 8:17 ` Michael Kjörling
2017-05-12 13:56 ` Tim Bradshaw
2017-05-12 14:22 ` Michael Kjörling
2017-05-12 14:30 ` Larry McVoy
2017-05-12 15:11 ` Tim Bradshaw
2017-05-12 15:52 ` Chet Ramey
2017-05-12 16:21 ` Warner Losh
2017-05-12 8:15 ` Harald Arnesen
2017-05-14 4:30 ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-05-14 17:40 ` Clem Cole
[not found] <mailman.1.1494986402.2329.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2017-05-19 14:31 ` David
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-05-16 13:20 Noel Chiappa
2017-05-16 13:46 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-14 21:44 Noel Chiappa
2017-05-13 1:25 Noel Chiappa
2017-05-13 0:44 Noel Chiappa
2017-05-13 0:51 ` Random832
2017-05-13 0:55 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-05-13 1:17 ` Chris Torek
2017-05-13 15:25 ` Steve Simon
2017-05-13 16:55 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-13 17:19 ` William Pechter
2017-05-14 12:55 ` Derek Fawcus
2017-05-14 22:12 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-05-15 1:24 ` Nemo
2017-05-15 18:00 ` Steve Johnson
2017-05-16 22:33 ` Ron Natalie
2017-05-16 23:13 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-05-16 23:18 ` Ron Natalie
2017-05-13 23:01 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-05-12 23:30 Noel Chiappa
2017-05-12 23:38 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-05-12 23:52 ` Random832
2017-05-13 0:26 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-05-13 0:48 ` Random832
2017-05-13 0:22 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-13 0:23 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-12 18:43 Doug McIlroy
2017-05-12 18:56 ` Dan Cross
2017-05-12 19:43 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-12 20:06 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-12 20:40 ` Jeremy C. Reed
2017-05-12 21:29 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-12 21:29 ` Ron Natalie
2017-05-12 15:12 Noel Chiappa
2017-05-12 15:17 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-12 15:18 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-12 15:46 ` Clem Cole
2017-05-11 17:08 Noel Chiappa
2017-05-11 21:34 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-05-10 14:08 Diomidis Spinellis
2017-05-10 14:38 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-05-10 23:09 ` Erik Berls
2017-05-11 12:40 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-05-11 0:49 ` Clem Cole
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