From: lm@mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy)
Subject: [TUHS] Why Pascal is Not My Favorite Programming Language - Unearthed!
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:26:55 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170901012655.GH448@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E69CA2DD-44E3-43C9-8480-3D061C450AA6@bitblocks.com>
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 06:22:41PM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote:
>
> > On Aug 31, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Larry McVoy <lm at mcvoy.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 04:37:17PM -0400, William Cheswick wrote:
> >> I look to the likes of go and rust to get us back on track. C is a pretty good assembly language.
> >
> > So what chaps my grumpy old hide is why the heck do a whole new language
> > when you have one that is pretty good? Suppose we took C and added a
> > dialect via options:
> >
> > --no-ptrs // use arrays and indices, you get bounds checking
> > --strings // system managed memory for strings, like tcl
> > --perlisms // if (buf =~ /re/) and unless (it_worked())
>
> Such a language would stop being C.
Indeed. But it builds on C.
> In Go you can use slices instead of arrays (but slices are only one dimensional).
> Ptrs are relatively safe as memory is garbage collected so e.g. a function can
> return &local_variable. No perlism.
>
> Go provides other features which are quite useful: concurrency, channels,
> interfaces, packages.
>
> People who like C tend to like Go. But Go is not low-level enough. No one
> is writing a kernel in it! Or doing bare metal programming. AFAIK.
Exactly.
> > etc. Why create an entirely new language, new syntax, new linkage, etc,
> > instead of fixing C's shortcomings?
>
> C has too many problems. If you try fixing them, none of the "dusty decks"
> would run on such a compiler + the new language would be severely
> hampered in its evolution due to its C legacy.
So I'd need to understand more to believe that claim. And for the record,
what I'm going for is a new C that is still C enough to be useful but
fixes the problems enough to be a new language. Someone asked about
C++ and D, nope. Too far from C. I just want a C that fixes enough
of the problems that it is more acceptable to modern programmers but
is still C. Not sure if I'm explaining that well enough.
> Algol family, class based, prototype based, functional, array, logic,
> visual, ... programming language are just what we have tried so far.
> I don't think we are anywhere near the end of programming language
> evolution.
Yep.
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-09-01 1:26 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 68+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-08-30 12:34 arnold
2017-08-30 14:13 ` Eric Wayte
2017-08-30 14:30 ` Michael Kjörling
2017-08-30 14:43 ` Eric Wayte
2017-08-30 17:10 ` Mutiny
2017-08-30 22:33 ` Michael Parson
2017-08-31 0:55 ` Nemo
2017-08-31 13:29 ` arnold
2017-08-31 18:24 ` Nemo
2017-09-03 0:56 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-03 12:07 ` arnold
2017-09-03 22:03 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-04 12:12 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-08-31 1:13 ` Bakul Shah
2017-08-31 14:48 ` Larry McVoy
2017-08-31 15:26 ` Eric Wayte
2017-08-31 16:12 ` Warner Losh
2017-08-31 17:51 ` Larry McVoy
2017-08-31 18:40 ` Clem Cole
2017-08-31 19:25 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-01 1:57 ` Nemo
2017-09-01 14:17 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-01 14:28 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-01 14:48 ` William Cheswick
2017-09-01 15:15 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-01 15:47 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-01 16:21 ` Nevin Liber
2017-09-01 16:34 ` Dan Cross
2017-09-02 0:24 ` Dave Horsfall
2017-08-31 19:47 ` Toby Thain
2017-08-31 20:37 ` William Cheswick
2017-08-31 20:51 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-01 0:52 ` Bakul Shah
2017-08-31 21:46 ` Larry McVoy
2017-08-31 21:59 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-08-31 22:08 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-01 1:11 ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-01 0:57 ` David Arnold
2017-09-01 1:22 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-01 1:26 ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2017-09-01 1:51 ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-01 2:22 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-01 2:27 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-01 2:58 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-01 3:12 ` Dan Cross
2017-09-01 2:51 ` Dan Cross
2017-08-31 20:37 ` Clem Cole
2017-08-31 21:26 ` Toby Thain
2017-09-01 2:38 ` Dan Cross
2017-09-01 3:59 ` Toby Thain
2017-09-01 15:57 ` Dan Cross
2017-09-01 16:08 ` Toby Thain
2017-09-01 18:15 ` [TUHS] Future Languages (was Pascal not Favorite...) Steve Johnson
2017-09-01 18:43 ` ron minnich
2017-09-01 23:33 ` Chris Torek
2017-09-04 20:55 ` ron minnich
2017-09-01 20:42 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-04 20:44 ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-01 13:46 ` [TUHS] Why Pascal is Not My Favorite Programming Language - Unearthed! Clem Cole
2017-09-01 14:43 ` Toby Thain
2017-09-01 15:14 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-01 16:22 ` Dan Cross
2017-09-01 19:07 ` Toby Thain
2017-09-02 13:25 ` Dan Cross
2017-09-02 15:00 ` Toby Thain
2017-09-02 15:16 Diomidis Spinellis
2017-09-02 19:53 ` Toby Thain
2017-09-03 14:48 Norman Wilson
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