From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: lm@mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 10:40:11 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] PDP-10 UNIX? In-Reply-To: References: <2962b49c-83ae-44a1-c07e-f46cde74a41d@kilonet.net> <5c2fe0d9c8cc5b6b90c7646d2fad5a3cb459d996@webmail.yaccman.com> Message-ID: <20170918174011.GM3272@mcvoy.com> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 01:25:41PM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Steve Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > ???... > > After the first time, there is little to learn, and the tedium of > > debugging a compiler and OS on a bare machine, when the documentation of > > the machine was hastily written and often incomplete, was frustrating > > almost beyond describing. > > > > ???+1??? And the HW does quite work the way it claimed too.... > It's fun ... once :-) Wussies, I did it twice :) Not really true, I worked a port to the ETA-10 and managed a group that was doing a bringup on a MIPS chip (Cobalt Qube). I had more of a clue the second time around, actually quit over it. The details, if you care, were that I was brought in as the director of software, there was no VP, I reported to the CEO. I was assured that I would be treated like a founder, yada yada. OK, some time goes by and the CEO wants a schedule. Be aware that things were a mess, no backups, no nightly builds, no source control, engineers were hoarding "their" code on their machines. It was little disfunctional, but I was straightening all that out, had it pretty much under control by the time they asked for a schedule. We were using GCC which hadn't had a ton of MIPS time under its belt, and Linux, which was in the same state. We could boot a kernel but it crashed (I think, this was a long time ago). Anyway, they wanted a fast schedule (don't they always?) and I looked around and said "6 months". Which was aggressive but I felt it was doable, the kernel was booting, once you get that stable, userland tends to fall into place. We were also developing a web interface to the box, that was the whole point, it was a "web server in a box" with a web UI, no login for you (well there was but we weren't supposed to use it). They freaked at the schedule. "The board will never go for that!" So I called Bill Earl, who has done more bringups on MIPS chips than anyone, period. At least so far as I knew at the time, still don't know of anyone who has done more. He asked a bunch thoughtful questions and said "weeeeell, maybe you could do it in 3 months. If you don't hit any bugs." I asked "Would you bet your kids college education on it?" He said "Oh, hell no, I wouldn't bet $20 that you'll make it in 3 months. You hit one compiler bug, that could blow the whole schedule easy." So I go back to the CEO and said "6 months". He's all pissed and says he'll take it to the board. I say I want to be there to make my case. He says "Nope, you aren't an executive." I handed in my resignation. Founder my ass. --lm