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From: bakul@bitblocks.com (Bakul Shah)
Subject: [TUHS] Sockets and the true UNIX
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 11:56:49 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170921185705.2A31A156E523@mail.bitblocks.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:13:38 -0700." <201709211613.v8LGDcuN015299@darkstar.fourwinds.com>

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:13:38 -0700 Jon Steinhart <jon at fourwinds.com> wrote:
Jon Steinhart writes:
> 
> Maybe this is naive of me, but I have never liked parts of the sockets
> interface.  I understand that at some level it was a political/legal
> keeping the networking code independent of the rest of the kernel.
> >From a technical and historical standpoint, I view it as the tip of
> the iceberg bloating the number of system calls.

In a sense the socket interface is a lower level interface
compared to other syscalls. But complicated by the fact that
it tries to be general.

> In particular, I have often thought that it would have been a better
> and more consistent with the philosophy to have it implemented as
> open("/dev/tcp") and so on.  Granted that networking added some new
> functionality that justified some of the system calls, just not socket().

This is more or less how plan9 networking is done.  Among
other things you can write scripts that can do networking even
though the shell knows nothing about networking.  See
    http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/net/

The key is to realize that each protocol defines its own
namespace so this fits naturally in plan9.  Allowing services
(programs, kernel or drivers) to define their own namespaces
and making them accessible via a tiny interface to any program
is the main invention of plan9.  Similarly ctl files instead
of ioctls.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-09-21 18:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 32+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-09-21 16:01 Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-21 16:07 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-21 16:10 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-21 16:20   ` David Edmondson
2017-09-21 16:25   ` Clem Cole
2017-09-21 16:27     ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-21 16:37     ` [TUHS] Sockets and the true UNIX [ actually carping about streams ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-21 18:26   ` [TUHS] Sockets and the true UNIX Chet Ramey
2017-09-21 16:13 ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-21 16:17   ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-21 20:36     ` Chris Torek
2017-09-21 18:56   ` Bakul Shah [this message]
2017-09-21 19:13     ` Steve Simon
2017-09-21 19:31       ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-21 20:15         ` ron minnich
2017-09-21 20:34           ` Clem Cole
2017-09-21 23:26   ` Dave Horsfall
     [not found] <mailman.1105.1506026200.3779.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2017-09-22 10:36 ` Paul Ruizendaal
2017-09-22 14:32   ` Clem Cole
2017-09-22 14:42     ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-22 14:47       ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-22 14:52         ` Lars Brinkhoff
2017-09-22 14:49       ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-22 14:57         ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-22 18:14           ` Chris Torek
2017-09-22 18:43             ` Clem Cole
2017-09-22 19:08             ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-22 20:57               ` Chris Torek
2017-09-24 18:04                 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-22 18:00   ` Chris Torek
2017-09-25 17:57 Norman Wilson
2017-09-25 18:55 ` Clem Cole

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