From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: lm@mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 07:06:17 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] UNIX of choice these days? In-Reply-To: References: <20170923091704.GD10152@darioniedermann.it> Message-ID: <20170924140617.GG28606@mcvoy.com> +1 on what Ron said. I don't get the rationale for going back to ptrace. Anyone know what it is? Is there a perf issue? On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 02:02:54PM +0000, ron minnich wrote: > ptrace replaces procfs? Wow, that's a disappointing turn of events. It's > also against the flow of thought in the Unix community I knew in 1980. If > somebody has any of the old ca-1980 BSD manuals, you should find a BUGS > section on ptrace advocating a move to a file-system-like interface. I > always assumed ken wrote that little note when he was visiting UCB -- > anybody know? > > Plan 9 implements process debug via /proc, and several debuggers use that > interface -- including, in harvey, gdbstub so we can remote gdb processes. > I also implemented an strace-like command by extending /proc/pid/ctl with a > few extra commands. In so doing, I made it possible to write strace with a > shell script, which was kind of fun. > > I always felt the /proc/pid/ctl model in Plan 9 implemented what we hoped > to see implemented in Unix to replace ptrace. ptrace, even the new ones, > are clunky in the best times. > > The file system model is powerful. The strace based on /proc was a few > dozen lines. > > > > On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 6:47 AM Andy Kosela wrote: > > > > > > > On Saturday, September 23, 2017, Steve Mynott > > wrote: > > > >> On 23 September 2017 at 10:17, Dario Niedermann > >> wrote: > >> > Il 20/09/2017 alle 02:39, Dave Horsfall ha scritto: > >> > > >> >> Definitely FreeBSD, because it's solid, has thousands of ports, > >> >> and well, is BSD... > >> > > >> > I have been a user in the past, but I just can't forgive FreeBSD for > >> > abandoning the proc filesystem :-( > >> > >> procfs still exists in FreeBSD and can be added to fstab but isn't > >> mounted by default after an install. > >> > >> Generally the BSDs (and OS X) don't seem to actively maintain procfs > >> and it has been remove from OpenBSD. > >> > >> -- > >> 4096R/EA75174B Steve Mynott > >> > >> > > This is not true. Procfs has been deprecated in FreeBSD since at > > least 2012. > > > > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/sys/fs/procfs/procfs.c?view=log > > > > And replacement for procfs is not sysctl, but rather ptrace(2). > > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-fs/2011-February/010765.html > > > > I am one of those that also did not like that. There is some magical > > simplicity in the way procfs is implemented -- it spells real UNIX to me. > > > > --Andy > > > > > > -- --- Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm