* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) @ 2018-05-15 12:11 Ron Natalie 2018-05-15 14:17 ` arnold ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Ron Natalie @ 2018-05-15 12:11 UTC (permalink / raw) I never really learned VI. I can stumbled through it in ex mode if I have to. If there's no EMACS on the UNIX system I'm using, I use ed. You get real good at regular expressions. Some of my employees were pretty amazed at how fast I could make code changes with just ed. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 12:11 [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) Ron Natalie @ 2018-05-15 14:17 ` arnold 2018-05-15 14:37 ` Larry McVoy 2018-05-15 16:54 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 2018-05-15 20:04 ` Cág 2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: arnold @ 2018-05-15 14:17 UTC (permalink / raw) "Ron Natalie" <ron at ronnatalie.com> wrote: > I never really learned VI. I can stumbled through it in ex mode if I have > to. If there's no EMACS on the UNIX system I'm using, I use ed. > You get real good at regular expressions. Some of my employees were > pretty amazed at how fast I could make code changes with just ed. I did learn vi, after having learned ed first. I drop down to the ex command line for major regexp-based surgery too. I also get the amazement from co-workers who watch me do stuff. :-) This is particularly true of the, er, younger coworkers (kids today ... :-) who can't manage outside an IDE. Arnold ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 14:17 ` arnold @ 2018-05-15 14:37 ` Larry McVoy 2018-05-15 14:47 ` Clem cole 2018-05-15 15:09 ` arnold 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Larry McVoy @ 2018-05-15 14:37 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 08:17:38AM -0600, arnold at skeeve.com wrote: > "Ron Natalie" <ron at ronnatalie.com> wrote: > > > I never really learned VI. I can stumbled through it in ex mode if I have > > to. If there's no EMACS on the UNIX system I'm using, I use ed. > > You get real good at regular expressions. Some of my employees were > > pretty amazed at how fast I could make code changes with just ed. > > I did learn vi, after having learned ed first. I drop down to the ex > command line for major regexp-based surgery too. I also get the amazement > from co-workers who watch me do stuff. :-) This is particularly true > of the, er, younger coworkers (kids today ... :-) who can't manage > outside an IDE. In fairness to them, I don't know how you learn the good stuff outside of a terminal room. I learned so much by watching the screen change and going "WTF? How did you do that?" There is only so much you can stuff into a manual. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 14:37 ` Larry McVoy @ 2018-05-15 14:47 ` Clem cole 2018-05-15 15:12 ` Warner Losh 2018-05-15 15:09 ` arnold 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Clem cole @ 2018-05-15 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw) Yeah. We lost that and it was a good thing. Programming became a operation between you and your computer in the privacy of your own office. Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite. > On May 15, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Larry McVoy <lm at mcvoy.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 08:17:38AM -0600, arnold at skeeve.com wrote: >> "Ron Natalie" <ron at ronnatalie.com> wrote: >> >>> I never really learned VI. I can stumbled through it in ex mode if I have >>> to. If there's no EMACS on the UNIX system I'm using, I use ed. >>> You get real good at regular expressions. Some of my employees were >>> pretty amazed at how fast I could make code changes with just ed. >> >> I did learn vi, after having learned ed first. I drop down to the ex >> command line for major regexp-based surgery too. I also get the amazement >> from co-workers who watch me do stuff. :-) This is particularly true >> of the, er, younger coworkers (kids today ... :-) who can't manage >> outside an IDE. > > In fairness to them, I don't know how you learn the good stuff outside > of a terminal room. I learned so much by watching the screen change > and going "WTF? How did you do that?" > > There is only so much you can stuff into a manual. > -- > --- > Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 14:47 ` Clem cole @ 2018-05-15 15:12 ` Warner Losh 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Warner Losh @ 2018-05-15 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw) Lord knows I learned Unix by watching my peers type it... In the long run that was both good and bad, though, since now all I get to see people type are shell scripts which range from brilliant to rubbish... The only way to know where on that spectrum things are is to read a bunch of them... and to get burned a few times stealing the techniques that are best described, in hindsight, as "it seemed like a good idea at the time." Warner On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Clem cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote: > Yeah. We lost that and it was a good thing. Programming became a > operation between you and your computer in the privacy of your own office. > > Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not > quite. > > > On May 15, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Larry McVoy <lm at mcvoy.com> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 08:17:38AM -0600, arnold at skeeve.com wrote: > >> "Ron Natalie" <ron at ronnatalie.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I never really learned VI. I can stumbled through it in ex mode if I > have > >>> to. If there's no EMACS on the UNIX system I'm using, I use ed. > >>> You get real good at regular expressions. Some of my employees were > >>> pretty amazed at how fast I could make code changes with just ed. > >> > >> I did learn vi, after having learned ed first. I drop down to the ex > >> command line for major regexp-based surgery too. I also get the > amazement > >> from co-workers who watch me do stuff. :-) This is particularly true > >> of the, er, younger coworkers (kids today ... :-) who can't manage > >> outside an IDE. > > > > In fairness to them, I don't know how you learn the good stuff outside > > of a terminal room. I learned so much by watching the screen change > > and going "WTF? How did you do that?" > > > > There is only so much you can stuff into a manual. > > -- > > --- > > Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com > http://www.mcvoy.com/lm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20180515/2412348b/attachment.html> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 14:37 ` Larry McVoy 2018-05-15 14:47 ` Clem cole @ 2018-05-15 15:09 ` arnold 2018-05-15 15:18 ` Larry McVoy 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: arnold @ 2018-05-15 15:09 UTC (permalink / raw) > In fairness to them, I don't know how you learn the good stuff outside > of a terminal room. I learned so much by watching the screen change > and going "WTF? How did you do that?" > > There is only so much you can stuff into a manual. Indeed. But this can be taught; however, it seems that many of the younger generation aren't interested in learning it. As Clem noted, losing the terminal room has had a negative impact on learning. (Boy, are we just a bunch of old farts, or what ... :-) Arnold ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 15:09 ` arnold @ 2018-05-15 15:18 ` Larry McVoy 2018-05-15 15:34 ` Jon Steinhart 2018-05-15 23:31 ` Dave Horsfall 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Larry McVoy @ 2018-05-15 15:18 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 09:09:36AM -0600, arnold at skeeve.com wrote: > > In fairness to them, I don't know how you learn the good stuff outside > > of a terminal room. I learned so much by watching the screen change > > and going "WTF? How did you do that?" > > > > There is only so much you can stuff into a manual. > > Indeed. But this can be taught; however, it seems that many of the > younger generation aren't interested in learning it. As Clem noted, > losing the terminal room has had a negative impact on learning. > > (Boy, are we just a bunch of old farts, or what ... :-) I'm not old, oh, wait. And get off my lawn! :) -- --- Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 15:18 ` Larry McVoy @ 2018-05-15 15:34 ` Jon Steinhart 2018-05-15 16:36 ` Warner Losh 2018-05-15 23:31 ` Dave Horsfall 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Jon Steinhart @ 2018-05-15 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw) Larry McVoy writes: > On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 09:09:36AM -0600, arnold at skeeve.com wrote: > > > In fairness to them, I don't know how you learn the good stuff outside > > > of a terminal room. I learned so much by watching the screen change > > > and going "WTF? How did you do that?" > > > > > > There is only so much you can stuff into a manual. > > > > Indeed. But this can be taught; however, it seems that many of the > > younger generation aren't interested in learning it. As Clem noted, > > losing the terminal room has had a negative impact on learning. > > > > (Boy, are we just a bunch of old farts, or what ... :-) > > I'm not old, oh, wait. And get off my lawn! :) I have fond memories of the "public terminal" room that was somewhere on the 4th or 5th floor of building 2 at Murray Hill. Never knew who you'd run into there. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 15:34 ` Jon Steinhart @ 2018-05-15 16:36 ` Warner Losh 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Warner Losh @ 2018-05-15 16:36 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 9:34 AM, Jon Steinhart <jon at fourwinds.com> wrote: > Larry McVoy writes: > > On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 09:09:36AM -0600, arnold at skeeve.com wrote: > > > > In fairness to them, I don't know how you learn the good stuff > outside > > > > of a terminal room. I learned so much by watching the screen change > > > > and going "WTF? How did you do that?" > > > > > > > > There is only so much you can stuff into a manual. > > > > > > Indeed. But this can be taught; however, it seems that many of the > > > younger generation aren't interested in learning it. As Clem noted, > > > losing the terminal room has had a negative impact on learning. > > > > > > (Boy, are we just a bunch of old farts, or what ... :-) > > > > I'm not old, oh, wait. And get off my lawn! :) > > I have fond memories of the "public terminal" room that was somewhere > on the 4th or 5th floor of building 2 at Murray Hill. Never knew who > you'd run into there. > Even at conferences, the hacking lounges provide only the barest flavor of what's going on here. Though I still see the cool thing I want to use, it's often painful to glance over people's shoulders... Some code can't be unseen :) Warner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20180515/9e4b7b83/attachment.html> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 15:18 ` Larry McVoy 2018-05-15 15:34 ` Jon Steinhart @ 2018-05-15 23:31 ` Dave Horsfall 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Dave Horsfall @ 2018-05-15 23:31 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, 15 May 2018, Larry McVoy wrote: >> (Boy, are we just a bunch of old farts, or what ... :-) > > I'm not old, oh, wait. And get off my lawn! :) Well, I turned 65.5 the other day, and am now looking forward to my first Age Pension payment; does that make me old? As for my lawn, I feed the magpies on it every morning :-) I buy meat especially for them (I'm not much of a carnivore myself, but I do like the occasional snag). -- Dave ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 12:11 [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) Ron Natalie 2018-05-15 14:17 ` arnold @ 2018-05-15 16:54 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 2018-05-15 20:04 ` Cág 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Theodore Y. Ts'o @ 2018-05-15 16:54 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 08:11:48AM -0400, Ron Natalie wrote: > I never really learned VI. I can stumbled through it in ex mode if I have > to. If there's no EMACS on the UNIX system I'm using, I use ed. > You get real good at regular expressions. Some of my employees were > pretty amazed at how fast I could make code changes with just ed. /bin/ed's commands are mostly the same as the line editing tools that Dec's PDP-8's 4k disk monitor system, PDP-15 backround/foreground monitor, and the RT-11's editor. I learned it on my own, from the manuals only --- and when you are using an teletype, you have a *huge* amount of incentive to learn all of the tricks you can. So my choice of editors largely follows Ron; I never really learned VI, so it's Emacs or ed. And if you're on a ghastly slow internet-on-an-airplane connection, being able to use ed is a really useful skill --- it just gives you flashbacks to using a teletype as an interface. - Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) 2018-05-15 12:11 [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) Ron Natalie 2018-05-15 14:17 ` arnold 2018-05-15 16:54 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o @ 2018-05-15 20:04 ` Cág 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Cág @ 2018-05-15 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw) "ed is the standard text editor" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2018-05-15 23:31 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2018-05-15 12:11 [TUHS] Good ol' ed (Was *ROFF) Ron Natalie 2018-05-15 14:17 ` arnold 2018-05-15 14:37 ` Larry McVoy 2018-05-15 14:47 ` Clem cole 2018-05-15 15:12 ` Warner Losh 2018-05-15 15:09 ` arnold 2018-05-15 15:18 ` Larry McVoy 2018-05-15 15:34 ` Jon Steinhart 2018-05-15 16:36 ` Warner Losh 2018-05-15 23:31 ` Dave Horsfall 2018-05-15 16:54 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o 2018-05-15 20:04 ` Cág
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