From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id a77cb5de for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 14:16:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id ECDA7A1829; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 00:16:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C24A1816; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 00:15:44 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=thunk.org header.i=@thunk.org header.b=ORW6qQU2; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id F3019A1816; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 00:15:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from imap.thunk.org (imap.thunk.org [74.207.234.97]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58D429EDF1 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2018 00:15:41 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=thunk.org; s=ef5046eb; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4i2OKQSFJu7DnGXJbDgdBRnygRfShE5gJWboOqkEijo=; b=ORW6qQU26dBh8Dq98GYnKzFZgZ 4O+V3hARyJNQ0YRGh6uhZvOCeXeCFKDuw0aQqG/nv5L8LM3MRSJBTndYvhJtwvzr0yvnW0K7ZYFfu IXMBQqDjiSU5hv/Mi7TIChDR/HI/BqcvEsDpeVkfpSgaV6POpF4kDRelTkJqYv+3ZP0o=; Received: from root (helo=callcc.thunk.org) by imap.thunk.org with local-esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fYXhz-0007fT-MJ; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 14:15:39 +0000 Received: by callcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id A57A77A447A; Thu, 28 Jun 2018 10:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 10:15:38 -0400 From: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" To: Bakul Shah Message-ID: <20180628141538.GB663@thunk.org> References: <81277CC3-3C4A-49B8-8720-CFAD22BB28F8@bitblocks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <81277CC3-3C4A-49B8-8720-CFAD22BB28F8@bitblocks.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.0 (2018-05-17) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: tytso@thunk.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on imap.thunk.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [TUHS] PDP-11 legacy, C, and modern architectures X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Bakul, I think you and Steve have a very particular set of programming use cases in mind, and are then over-generalizing this to assume that these are the only problems that matter. It's the same mistake Chisnall made when he assrted the parallel programming a myth that humans writing parallel programs was "hard", and "all you needed" was the right language. The problem is that not all people are interested in solving problems which are amenable to embarassingly parallel algorithms. Not all programmers are interested in doing matrix multiply, or writing using the latest hyped archiecture (whether you call by the new name, "microservices", or the older hyped name which IBM tried to promote "Service Oriented Architecture", or SOA). I'll note that Sun made a big bet (one of its last failed bets) on this architecture in the form of the Niagra architecture, with a large number of super "wimpy" cores. It was the same basic idea --- we can't make big fast cores (since that would lead to high ILP's, complex register rewriting, and lead to cache-oriented security vulnerabilities like Spectre and Meltdown) --- so instead, let's make lots of tiny wimpy cores, and let programmers write highly threaded programs! They essentially made a bet on the web-based microservice model which you are promoting. And the Market spoke. And shortly thereafter, Java fell under the control of Oracle.... And Intel would proceed to further dominate the landscape. - Ted