From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id d59d550e for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 07:25:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D123C93FC1; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 17:25:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF0893D08; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 17:25:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 3A5E393D07; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 17:25:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: from freefriends.org (freefriends.org [96.88.95.60]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACDCC93D06 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 17:25:07 +1000 (AEST) X-Envelope-From: arnold@skeeve.com Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id w6A7JxnT014857; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 01:19:59 -0600 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.9/8.14.9/submit) id w6A7Jx9V014856; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 07:19:59 GMT From: arnold@skeeve.com Message-Id: <201807100719.w6A7Jx9V014856@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: arnold set sender to arnold@skeeve.com using -f Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 01:19:59 -0600 To: ggm@algebras.org, arnold@skeeve.com References: <3386fb80b5282f7bca0ccf34252182c2398232c1@webmail.yaccman.com> <5D272962-0063-4D28-B551-F381D3D10239@alchemistowl.org> <009101d4112f$8bb30f50$a3192df0$@ronnatalie.com> <1531153839.3991054.1434840984.210C4B3F@webmail.messagingengine.com> <201807100554.w6A5s0VM005631@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] Any Good dmr Anecdotes? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" RFS vs. NFS and sockets vs. STREAMS were much more serious; they were about the directions Unix would take going forward, where interoperability (RFS/NFS) and code portability (sockets/STREAMS) were big either/or issues. Had AT&T been smarter about its licensing, both RFS and STREAMS might have "won", but they weren't, and those technologies have all but disappeared. GNU getopt can be used in a source-compatible way with POSIX getopt; having long options is up to the programmer. I agree, there were aesthetic arguments, altough long options have mostly "won". I'm about as long-time a Unix aficianado as anyone else here, and for many things I find long options easier to remember than short ones. (To their credit, at least initially, the GNU project asked its developers to use the same long options in all programs for operations that were the same.) Arnold George Michaelson wrote: > ... and then somebody GNUified it. I seem to recall three huge > flamewars in UUCP days: RFS vs NFS, STREAMS (the original) vs sockets, > and getopt > > --no -noo --nooo=please --dont-make-me=do-that > > On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 3:54 PM, wrote: > > Clem Cole wrote: > > > >> BY the time dmr adds stdio, it was > >> still early enough in the life to displace the randomness for something as > >> important as I/O, whereas lack of use of something.like getopt would not > >> become clearly deficient until after widespread success. > > > > I think "widespread access" is more like it for getopt. Getopt dates > > to 1980; it was in System III (I just checked). That's only about two years > > after V7 which was circa 1978. > > > > Here are the dates: > > > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 arnold arnold 1073 Apr 11 1980 usr/src/lib/libc/pdp11/gen/getopt.c > > -rw-rw-r-- 1 arnold arnold 2273 May 16 1980 usr/src/man/man3/getopt.3c > > > > But the world outside the Bell System didn't have System III. Getopt > > didn't become "popular" until System V or so, and became much easier to > > adopt once Henry Spencer published his public domain rewrite of the code > > and man page. > > > > Just a nit, (:-) > > > > Arnold