From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 11eaf1d3 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 20:41:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 91F2DA1A8D; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 06:41:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36289A1A29; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 06:41:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5AD73A1A29; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 06:41:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: from wopr.sciops.net (wopr.sciops.net [216.126.196.60]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEB8BA1A1D for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 06:41:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: (qmail 9850 invoked by uid 1001); 3 Sep 2018 13:41:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 13:41:15 -0700 From: Kurt H Maier To: Bakul Shah Message-ID: <20180903204115.GC99551@wopr> References: <20180831215636.-eCEx%ca6c@bitmessage.ch> <20180903180401.u4MVs%ca6c@bitmessage.ch> <20180903181133.GB81368@wopr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [TUHS] cat -v and other complaints X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Mon, Sep 03, 2018 at 01:08:41PM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote: > > One measure of success of a program is additional tools people build > to work with it. This is true, but unix and plan 9 are special because they have facilities that let many tools work together. Unix has pipes, plan 9 has the plumber on top of that, and so forth. I prefer tools that work with these systems to create an environment that lets me use the whole world to do my job. Emacs pointlessly restricts itself to its own reinventions of the world it inhabits. It makes sense if you are using a LispM but it constitutes a rejection of the 'system' component of 'operating system' when you transplant it to an ecosystem built on a different paradigm. The current modality of this antisocial behavior is the web; we've come full circle, and now we have bespoke web browsers shoved into the text-editing role, reinventing everything from character addressing to memory management on the way, treating the underlying system as an unfortunate accident of history instead of integrating with (or even learning from) it. Acme is a bad citizen in similar ways, but as I said, I suspect that's because it was intended to supplant Rio rather than infect it. When people talk about "the unix way," they usually hyperfocus on "do one thing well" and leave composability by the wayside, and that's a shame, because that's where the real power comes from. "Do one thing well" is a method to achieve quality when you're building a piece of a well-integrated system. If you're not building a well-integrated system, you *can't* "do one thing well," because you've signed on to do everything, come hell or high water. khm