From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 499b1c1a for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 03:11:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 72E90A1B14; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:11:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D0E1A1AFD; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:11:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7602EA1AFD; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:11:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from darkstar.fourwinds.com (fourwinds.com [63.64.179.162]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14DB4A1AFC for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:11:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from darkstar.fourwinds.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.fourwinds.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wAJ3BDv7028157 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2018 19:11:13 -0800 Received: from darkstar.fourwinds.com (jon@localhost) by darkstar.fourwinds.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id wAJ3BDHR028154 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2018 19:11:13 -0800 Message-Id: <201811190311.wAJ3BDHR028154@darkstar.fourwinds.com> From: Jon Steinhart To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-reply-to: References: <201811160003.wAG03mlF139232@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <20181116045016.GK3341@mcvoy.com> <7a632484-cdc7-7c59-7077-7a2c752045da@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <4c36b2b2-76df-435f-27bc-e1feb0647f36@case.edu> <201811162113.wAGLDGiQ031455@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Comments: In-reply-to Chet Ramey message dated "Sun, 18 Nov 2018 21:58:36 -0500." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <28152.1542597073.1@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 19:11:13 -0800 X-JON-SPAM: local delivery Subject: Re: [TUHS] man-page style X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Chet Ramey writes: > On 11/16/18 4:13 PM, Jon Steinhart wrote: > > But really the issue is that info introduced a new interface on a system > > that already had one that people were accustomed to. > > Improvement is in the eye of the beholder. RMS and other folks consider > info, with its hyperlinks, indexes, and tree-based navigation the superior > alternative. Not just different, but better. Well, of course it is. And as long as one doesn't care much about existing community one can do what one wants. Sort of like Americans expecting others to speak to them in English when they travel instead of understanding that they're in a different environment and it makes more sense to learn the culture as it's unlikely that everybody is gonna change just for you. This is not a unique problem with man vs info. I see it in the large number of different make utilities, package managers, and so on that really don't provide new functionality but do make it much harder to be a practicioner since one has a lot more stuff to learn for no real benefit. So were it me, I would have looked at the current culture in the UNIX environment and figured out how it gracefully extend it for new functionality. To me, that's a mark of good engineering instead of being a bull in a china shop. A good example of that in a different field is the way in which FM stereo was finessed in such a way as to not break existing mono receivers. Would have been easy to just toss it and make everybody buy new gear, but I prefer the more elegant solution. Jon