From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 3185064c for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 00:43:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E7FA0A370A; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:43:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21BE3A3705; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:42:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A9421A3705; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:42:35 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 3660 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 10:42:35 AEST Received: from darkstar.fourwinds.com (fourwinds.com [63.64.179.162]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B5A2A3704 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:42:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: from darkstar.fourwinds.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.fourwinds.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x06NfXso021560 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 15:41:33 -0800 Received: from darkstar.fourwinds.com (jon@localhost) by darkstar.fourwinds.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x06NfXe2021557 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 15:41:33 -0800 Message-Id: <201901062341.x06NfXe2021557@darkstar.fourwinds.com> From: Jon Steinhart To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <21555.1546818093.1@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 15:41:33 -0800 X-JON-SPAM: local delivery Subject: Re: [TUHS] Isaacson v Unix [really RMS bashing] X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Been wanting to wade into this for a few days but needed to think about how. I think that we're all aware that RMS has atrocious personal habits. But I don't think that this mailing list is the place to discuss them unless it's somehow in the context of UNIX. Many seem to excuse RMS's revisionist view of the history of technology on the grounds that RMS claims that his memory isn't very good. I think that if he knows that he doesn't remember things then he should refrain from talking about them as if he does. As others have said, I don't conflate coding prowess with the ability to design. I've had many an argument with John Gilmore (one of the people who doesn't mind footing the cleaning and repair bill after allowing RMS to stay at his place) where he begins with "When I wrote GNU tar..." I've always responded by saying that writing tar is no big deal; the specification was the hard part. One place where I completely disagree with RMS that I think is in context for this list is his claim that Linux should be called GNU/Linux. I've written tons of software in my life, and I don't preface the name of each one with the parts list. Even if one believed that such an attribution scheme made sense, I would claim that it should be called internet/Linux. I would argue that Linux would not have happened without the internet making it possible for folks around the world to participate. And I think that there's a good chance that the tools would have been created anyway. Of course, I acknowledge that the GNU tools have been ported to Linux. Big deal. I haven't seen RMS arguing for GNU/Windows now that Microsoft has seen the light. Like many of you, Linux is not where I first started using GNU tools; I started using them on my Sun machines after Sun started charging extra for the compiler and included a licensing system that was broken and often interfered with getting work done. Jon