From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 08c3d24e for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 02:12:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 31869A3711; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:12:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551B5A3705; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:11:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 20860A3705; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:11:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2281A3704 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:11:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id E7DC035E087; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:11:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:11:42 -0800 From: Larry McVoy To: Toby Thain Message-ID: <20190107021142.GF24497@mcvoy.com> References: <201901062341.x06NfXe2021557@darkstar.fourwinds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Subject: Re: [TUHS] Isaacson v Unix [really RMS bashing] X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Sun, Jan 06, 2019 at 08:38:45PM -0500, Toby Thain wrote: > On 2019-01-06 6:41 PM, Jon Steinhart wrote: > > ... > > As others have said, I don't conflate coding prowess with the ability to > > design. I've had many an argument with John Gilmore (one of the people > > who doesn't mind footing the cleaning and repair bill after allowing RMS > > to stay at his place) where he begins with "When I wrote GNU tar..." I've > > always responded by saying that writing tar is no big deal; the specification > > was the hard part. > > > > Hear, hear. I'd aver this is very much the case in any typical > software-related day job, and _definitely_ mine. Yep. The spec is hard, the code is easy. That is a pattern. I've been the guy behind decent sized projects, BitKeeper is 2673371 lines of code. Getting to a spec was hard, writing the code was easy. We were a tiny distributed team of about 10 engineers, the hard part was agreeing on a design. Which we did by getting on the phone and talking about what we talked about yesterday. We passed the idea between people and when we could do the pass back and forth and nothing had changed from the previous pass, we had a design. Coding that was just typing. It's very similar to what Udi Manber told me as an under grad, he said writing papers is easy. Not for me. But I came to understand that papers are two things: a big base of knowledge and an outline. If you have those two then the paper is just typing. He was right.