From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 43b659fc for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 23:53:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BD6499B8B6; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 09:53:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7D029B8A1; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 09:53:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 72C6E9B8A1; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 09:52:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E0CB9B8A0 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 09:52:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id 75E2435E130; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 15:52:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 15:52:57 -0800 From: Larry McVoy To: Kevin Bowling Message-ID: <20190206235257.GU20698@mcvoy.com> References: <20190206231852.5B33018C07B@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Subject: Re: [TUHS] OSI stack (Was: Posters) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society , Noel Chiappa Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Wed, Feb 06, 2019 at 04:40:24PM -0700, Kevin Bowling wrote: > Seems like a case of winners write the history books. There were > corporate and public access networks long before TCP was set in stone > as a dominant protocol. Most F500 were interchanging on SNA into the > 1990s. And access networks like Tymnet, etc to talk to others. Yeah, but those were all tied to some vendor. TCP/IP was the first wide spread networking stack that you could get from a pile of different vendors, Sun, Dec, SGI, IBM's AIX, every kernel supported it. System V was late to the party, Lachman bought the rights to Convergent's STREAMs based TCP/IP stack and had a tidy business for a while selling that stack to lots of places. It was an awful stack, I know because I ported it to a super computer and then to SCO's UNIX. When Sun switched to a System Vr4 kernel, they bought it in some crazy bad deal and tried to use it in Solaris. That lead to the tcp latency benchmark in lmbench because Oracle's clustered database ran like shit on Slowaris and I traced it down to their distributed lock manager and then whittled that code down to lat_tcp.c. Sun eventually dumped that stack and went with Mentat's code and tuned that back up. Sun actually dumped the socket code and went just with STREAMs interfaces but was forced to bring back sockets. Socket's aren't great but they won and there is no turning back. > TCP, coupled with the rise of UNIX and the free wheel sharing of BSD > code, are what made the people to talk to. BSD wasn't free until much later than TCP/IP. TCP/IP was developed in the 1970's. http://www.securenet.net/members/shartley/history/tcp_ip.htm https://www.livinginternet.com/i/ii_tcpip.htm