From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_EXCESS_BASE64, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 34b61d4c for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 06:52:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DE9829B629; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:52:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D052948F2; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:52:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6B527948F2; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:52:06 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 465 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:52:05 AEST Received: from pio-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se (pio-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se [79.136.2.40]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E23D948F1 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:52:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pio-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD8F3F6D2 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 08:44:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at bahnhof.se Received: from pio-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pio-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uP1CPB03C85j for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 08:44:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from h-174-65.A328.priv.bahnhof.se (h-174-65.A328.priv.bahnhof.se [81.170.174.65]) (Authenticated sender: mc179410) by pio-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2E45E3F384 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 08:44:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from h-174-65.A328.priv.bahnhof.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by h-174-65.A328.priv.bahnhof.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C42E22E55C7 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 08:44:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 06:44:08 +0000 From: Michael =?utf-8?B?S2rDtnJsaW5n?= To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Message-ID: <20190430064408.ry56lmufdgq7uaut@h-174-65.A328.priv.bahnhof.se> References: <20190428165452.9BB414422F@lignose.oclsc.org> <97e93751-6e2f-a120-2159-0fb0246ad683@gmail.com> <20190429180512.q2jrlsyhvb7cx4ev@h-174-65.A328.priv.bahnhof.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [TUHS] A question about ls(1) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 29 Apr 2019 16:44 -0400, from cbbrowne@gmail.com (Christopher Browne): > He also contended that the world might be a better place if LibreOffice > documents were captured as SQLite databases rather than being bundles of > XML stored in a .zip archive. That's a nice lively argument to have. > Actually poke at the slides at PGCon 2014; he makes similar arguments > about git repos (what if metadata were in a database?) and ePub book > files. At least OpenDocument is an ISO standard; and while it looks at a glance like the Zip file format and compression themselves aren't specified in it (at eight pages, there isn't a lot of room for detailed technical descriptions), ISO/IEC 21320-1:2015 "normatively references the Zip File Format Specification version 6.3.3 of PKWARE® Inc", stating that "[d]ocument container files are conforming Zip files as specified by that document". (Quoted from the summary page.) https://www.iso.org/standard/60101.html https://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/c060101_ISO_IEC_21320-1_2015.zip I could be wrong, but I don't _think_ that SQLite has reached quite that level of adoption. Also, relational databases have their advantages (I work with them myself), but lots of office-type documents (word processing documents, spreadsheets, presentations, etc.) inherently have a somewhat hierarchical or run-on data structure, lending themselves well to a hierarchical format. Whether we like it or not, XML also has the advantage of being a well-established standard for data serialization, and _with a schema_, can be readily validated. And if you don't like the outer Zip file container, at least OpenDocument also allows for single flat XML files. (Typical file name extension .fo[dt][gpst], as opposed to .o[dt][gpst] for the Zip container counterpart.) I'm pretty sure LibreOffice can be set up to save as such files even by default, if that's your cup of tea. Those get awfully big the moment you start including any non-trivial content, though. -- Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael@kjorling.se “The most dangerous thought that you can have as a creative person is to think you know what you’re doing.” (Bret Victor)