From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 93b9bcf5 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:31:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id AC7109BD4F; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:31:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E02889BC44; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:31:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 510C69BC44; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:31:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AC899BC43 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:31:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from callcc.thunk.org (guestnat-104-133-0-109.corp.google.com [104.133.0.109] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x5P0VL6j004425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 24 Jun 2019 20:31:22 -0400 Received: by callcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 2314642002B; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 20:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 20:31:21 -0400 From: "Theodore Ts'o" To: Larry McVoy Message-ID: <20190625003120.GA28608@mit.edu> References: <8D0B5B0D-9956-47D7-8D36-1729BB1E1DA9@eschatologist.net> <5df8c6f6-2768-4bfb-9c47-3345098078a7@PU1APC01FT048.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com> <20190625000630.GA7655@mcvoy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190625000630.GA7655@mcvoy.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Subject: Re: [TUHS] CMU Mach sources? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org" Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 05:06:30PM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote: > All interesting points but messy code is messy code. I had a bunch of the > FreeBSD folks over here for a BBQ a couple days ago (they want you at the > next one Clem). We got to talking about Mach and someone told me that in > the FreeBSD tree the Mach code was gone through and 60% of was deleted and > it still worked. It just seems like the Mach folks wanted to try this, > and that, and then next thing and never went back to clean up the mess. Welcome to academic/research code. :-) I'm reminded of a description of the Coda File System by Peter Braam; he said that it was irretrivably tainted by a dozen Ph.D. students working on their thesis. Naturally, once they had done the necessary work for them to get their doctorate, any interest in doing the necessary code cleanup for their various experimental efforts evaporated. He tried cleaning it up, and eventually gave up and decided to the only solution was a rewrite and redesign from scratch.... I used to be annoyed when professors and their graduate students would do their work based on same ancient version of Linux. (In general, the last version of Linux dating from the professor had time to hack on code.) I later decided that was a feature, not a bug, because it meant no one would be tempted to take academic code and try to put it into the mainline kernel... - Ted