Re: [TUHS] BSD/386 (was: Old 386 Unix Versions, was: Re: PCC for the i386)

Re: [TUHS] BSD/386 (was: Old 386 Unix Versions, was: Re: PCC for the i386)

[Richard Tobin]

> BSD[Ii] got in trouble with AT&T for their sales number, which was
> 1-800-ITS-UNIX. I don't know if they ever got officially sued or not.

There was a joke that MIT should have sued them too, for violating their
trademark on ITS.

-- Richard

-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

[TUHS] PCC for the i386

[Jason Stevens]

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Does anyone know where the 386 port from PCC came from?

While trying to build a Tahoe userland for the i386, it seems that everything was built with GCC…
Was there a PCC for the i386 around ’88-90?  It seems after the rapid demise of the Tahoe/Harris
HCX-9 that the non Vax/HCX-9 platforms had moved to GCC?

Also anyone know any good test software for LIBC?  I’ve been tracing through some
strange issues rebuilding LIBC from Tahoe, where I had to include some bits from
Reno to get diropen to actually work.  I would imagine there ought to have been some
platform exercise code to make sure things were actually working instead of say
building as much as you can, and playing rogue for a few hours to make sure
its stable enough. 

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Re: [TUHS] PCC for the i386

[Clem cole]

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I believe the pcc/386 came out of Steve Johnson team at Summit with the PCC2 work.  

Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite. 

> On Jul 11, 2019, at 7:53 AM, Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know where the 386 port from PCC came from?
>  
> While trying to build a Tahoe userland for the i386, it seems that everything was built with GCC…
> Was there a PCC for the i386 around ’88-90?  It seems after the rapid demise of the Tahoe/Harris
> HCX-9 that the non Vax/HCX-9 platforms had moved to GCC?
>  
> Also anyone know any good test software for LIBC?  I’ve been tracing through some
> strange issues rebuilding LIBC from Tahoe, where I had to include some bits from
> Reno to get diropen to actually work.  I would imagine there ought to have been some
> platform exercise code to make sure things were actually working instead of say
> building as much as you can, and playing rogue for a few hours to make sure
> its stable enough.

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Re: [TUHS] PCC for the i386

[Jason Stevens]

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That would make sense.   I was able to find some info on PCC2 here




http://doc.cat-v.org/unix/unix-before-berkeley/




I'm guessing along with the adoption of emacs the csrg must have been further gnu synergy...  Or maybe PCC2 just wasn't available outside of the labs? 




Or maybe by '88 gcc was already usurping many of the c compilers of the era. 











On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 11:37 PM +0800, "Clem cole" <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:










I believe the pcc/386 came out of Steve Johnson team at Summit with the PCC2 work.  

Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite. 
On Jul 11, 2019, at 7:53 AM, Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:



Does anyone know where the 386 port from PCC came from?

 

While trying to build a Tahoe userland for the i386, it seems that everything was built with GCC…

Was there a PCC for the i386 around ’88-90?  It seems after the rapid demise of the Tahoe/Harris

HCX-9 that the non Vax/HCX-9 platforms had moved to GCC?

 

Also anyone know any good test software for LIBC?  I’ve been tracing through some

strange issues rebuilding LIBC from Tahoe, where I had to include some bits from

Reno to get diropen to actually work.  I would imagine there ought to have been some

platform exercise code to make sure things were actually working instead of say

building as much as you can, and playing rogue for a few hours to make sure

its stable enough. 





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Re: [TUHS] PCC for the i386

[Clem cole]

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By the time of 4.2 the switch from the  Ritchie and Johnson compilers at UCB had begun.  Remember the primary output of Rms at that point was emacs and gcc.    

CSRG wanted the different backends for C.   ThAts it.  Besides the vax, Rms had done 68000 and 386 back ends then.  

With the original system V, all of AT&T, Intel and IBM paid Interactive Systems Corp (aka ISC) to port the System V/Vax code to a 386 ps/2 and an Intel reference system that used an ISA bus.  This would be eventually released in source at the 386 port from AT&T.   As part of the contract summit supplied the compiler

I know the AT&T assembler with it’s backwards syntax from Intel was done before rms did his.  He was compatible with the summit assembler.  I don’t remember who’s 386 backend came out first.  I think is was the summit compiler but you needed a system v license which UCB did not have. 

Clem

Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite. 

> On Jul 11, 2019, at 8:50 AM, Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:
> 
> That would make sense.   I was able to find some info on PCC2 here
> 
> http://doc.cat-v.org/unix/unix-before-berkeley/
> 
> I'm guessing along with the adoption of emacs the csrg must have been further gnu synergy...  Or maybe PCC2 just wasn't available outside of the labs? 
> 
> Or maybe by '88 gcc was already usurping many of the c compilers of the era. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 11:37 PM +0800, "Clem cole" <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> 
>> I believe the pcc/386 came out of Steve Johnson team at Summit with the PCC2 work.  
>> 
>> Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite. 
>> 
>>> On Jul 11, 2019, at 7:53 AM, Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does anyone know where the 386 port from PCC came from?
>>>  
>>> While trying to build a Tahoe userland for the i386, it seems that everything was built with GCC…
>>> Was there a PCC for the i386 around ’88-90?  It seems after the rapid demise of the Tahoe/Harris
>>> HCX-9 that the non Vax/HCX-9 platforms had moved to GCC?
>>>  
>>> Also anyone know any good test software for LIBC?  I’ve been tracing through some
>>> strange issues rebuilding LIBC from Tahoe, where I had to include some bits from
>>> Reno to get diropen to actually work.  I would imagine there ought to have been some
>>> platform exercise code to make sure things were actually working instead of say
>>> building as much as you can, and playing rogue for a few hours to make sure
>>> its stable enough.

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Re: [TUHS] PCC for the i386

[A. P. Garcia]

On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 12:31 PM Clem cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

<snip>
>
> With the original system V, all of AT&T, Intel and IBM paid Interactive Systems Corp (aka ISC) to port the System V/Vax code to a 386 ps/2 and an Intel reference system that used an ISA bus.  This would be eventually released in source at the 386 port from AT&T.   As part of the contract summit supplied the compiler
>
<snip>

Did Sun have anything to do with that? I seem to recall something
called "Interactive Unix" for the 386, possibly marketed by Sun...

[TUHS] Old 386 Unix Versions, was: Re: PCC for the i386

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2019-07-11 18:50, A. P. Garcia wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 12:31 PM Clem cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> Did Sun have anything to do with that? I seem to recall something
> called "Interactive Unix" for the 386, possibly marketed by Sun...

"Interactive Unix" was pretty nice back than.
Anybody remembers ESIX? Still have the document wall for that ...

Cheers

[TUHS] BSD/386 (was: Old 386 Unix Versions, was: Re: PCC for the i386)

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

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On Wednesday, 17 July 2019 at  9:37:44 +0200, emanuel stiebler wrote:
> On 2019-07-11 18:50, A. P. Garcia wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 12:31 PM Clem cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>
>> Did Sun have anything to do with that? I seem to recall something
>> called "Interactive Unix" for the 386, possibly marketed by Sun...
>
> "Interactive Unix" was pretty nice back than.

I used it in the early 1990s (Interactive UNIX/386, based on System V,
IIRC; there were other versions with different lineage).  My
recollections of it were less positive than yours, maybe only by
comparison.  Installation (hundreds of small components, each with
their own license key) was a nightmare.

In that connection, and by way of comparison, I'm surprised that
nobody has mentioned BSDI's BSD/386 yet, which grew up intimately
related to Jolitz' 386BSD.  Jolitz worked with BSDI until (the
beginning of?) December 1991, when he left due to disagreement with
BSDI's licence model, apparently destroying all his work.

I started using BSD/386 in mid-March 1992, a couple of days before
Jolitz released 386BSD.  In contrast to 386BSD, it was solid,
installed easily, and cost $1000 (with source; I think there were
cheaper binary-only options).  It blew Interactive UNIX out of the
water.  This was a Beta, so I sent reports which I have published at
http://www.lemis.com/grog/diary-mar1992.php#18

It's a pity that BSD/386 (later BSD/OS) went away, though later we
incorporated some parts of the kernel into FreeBSD (with BSDI's
permission and blessing, of course; see
http://www.lemis.com/grog/diary-jun2000.php).  In contrast to the
other early offerings, it Just Worked.  But the idea of paying for
operating systems seemed to have passed its use-by date.

Greg
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Re: [TUHS] BSD/386 (was: Old 386 Unix Versions, was: Re: PCC for the i386)

[Richard Salz]

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BSD[Ii] got in trouble with AT&T for their sales number, which was
1-800-ITS-UNIX. I don't know if they ever got officially sued or not.

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Re: [TUHS] BSD/386 (was: Old 386 Unix Versions, was: Re: PCC for the i386)

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

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On Wednesday, 17 July 2019 at 20:16:59 -0400, Richard Salz wrote:
> BSD[Ii] got in trouble with AT&T for their sales number, which was
> 1-800-ITS-UNIX.

Correct.

> I don't know if they ever got officially sued or not.

Not for that.  I think they got a "cease and desist" or whatever it's
called, and they changed their number.  They were, however, the main
group that got sued in the Unix wars, along with UCB, but not the free
BSDs.

Greg
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Re: [TUHS] BSD/386 (was: Old 386 Unix Versions, was: Re: PCC for the i386)

[Chet Ramey]

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On 7/17/19 8:04 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:

> I started using BSD/386 in mid-March 1992, a couple of days before
> Jolitz released 386BSD.  In contrast to 386BSD, it was solid,
> installed easily, and cost $1000 (with source; I think there were
> cheaper binary-only options).  It blew Interactive UNIX out of the
> water.  This was a Beta, so I sent reports which I have published at
> http://www.lemis.com/grog/diary-mar1992.php#18

Agreed. We used BSD/386 and BSD/OS pretty heavily at Case. We ran a
significant portion of the infrastructure services on it. It was
solid.

-- 
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
		 ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU    chet@case.edu    http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/


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