From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 3ffe3949 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 02:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A0FE49BBDD; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 12:17:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE829BB5E; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 12:17:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5329D9B684; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 12:17:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AC249B4F2 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 12:17:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from callcc.thunk.org (guestnat-104-133-0-111.corp.google.com [104.133.0.111] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x7R2Gx6P007891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:17:00 -0400 Received: by callcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id E0C3F42049E; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:16:58 -0400 From: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" To: Warner Losh Message-ID: <20190827021658.GF28066@mit.edu> References: <13c5c36e-c84d-e020-d09e-51c8c502dc6d@kilonet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Subject: Re: [TUHS] If not Linux, then what? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 05:27:14PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > BSD was in decent enough shape at the time to run on PCs. Though it > fragmented early through no fault of Linux. And the AT&T lawsuit created a > lot of FUD in the area without actually protecting System V. It's unclear > if another thing would have popped up to fill the void... Linux flourished > in the confusion, but without it, it's hard to know if something else would > have been developed before the AT&T lawsuit settled. It's really hard to answer these what-if questions. The *BSD's suffered from some really toxic politics which resulted in the fragmentation, but it also no doubt turned away some developers. I had friends at MIT who were urging me to quit the "toy" Linux and switch to the more "Real" Unix efforts. But I got to meet at least one very toxic personality in person which immediately turned me away from that offer --- and I got my start on BSD 4.3 with Project Athena. (For all that people used to like to complain about Linus's e-mail persona, I *much* preferred to work with Linus than with some of the personalities in the *BSD/HURD communities.) People are very fond of blaming the *BSD's failure to become popular on the AT&T lawsuit, and that no doubt didn't help. But it's not at all clear to me that was the only, or even the primary, reason. - Ted