From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id e8404f2b for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 10:45:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5F3EA9BCD4; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 20:45:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470609BC9A; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 20:45:07 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=papnet.eu header.i=@papnet.eu header.b="LvL5AYQl"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="tT2DugH4"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5CEDD9BC42; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 20:45:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AED719BC35 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 20:45:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B4D479 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 06:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 28 Aug 2019 06:45:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=papnet.eu; h= date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to; s=fm2; bh=E ZgC0U3b54IraIXLnXz0EP7Z7epcwSqZucspbFJbshM=; b=LvL5AYQlvemsHDFdb ojsN+8OYvdnHcJBXBXVd51KkB3mAXTRZqLvA9/flkpgKcNbmOm84jFnMDmJSM58d KDOtP2SdCrUdJb453oRndrsl4yI3adFZ99Ppo8k0W7N9owGemzUK8zUzpPhTrMNw H7b1yClSTzNejeoYFnJ/gsD0DarPr1oqTVk50+EoEpjadkF73G8yGke87xXChNC+ rTGPqXLDU+WpeawAnV8zIa64A2IMByChTmj3wWlqlvfCxcFiH0hdNl1RRlURdNOd 4QmKBzQ/k4Qu1pK3BwkBdI5kLmOXa+uaKJPLNtaIRwjzHiGkDC8Pii/tCfiTc1Ct oFtuQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=EZgC0U3b54IraIXLnXz0EP7Z7epcwSqZucspbFJbs hM=; b=tT2DugH4yRZcFf0+/IBVNMxceOSW0o41C3goLY+NNxgJY32MiqLGVpEuS 0Sj2W4ndrxVcCvVuB2ufFd+A/NL3KuxkYTaJVRB62JldlGWTujeASkHytxmPaRC0 0yPbAZn2pW99mfw121ODagL+N1mY2j4n1BsZW2vXOLOak18Lrfzybpg3y7qujXFw KM4SbP2TTaafcreQUBfRwKv2lzxGsQrrPxBiOFH+qU/QdN5/NarXYbBMefkjd9bz AVi+PkgheU1EmcIFCv9IcOz8ZkagfycL6Sj+VNUXy57LXi+RqtOntF56ukixM3RM ZM4haU0A/By8cJ4iAd1LB6EHVO63A== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduvddrudeitddgfeduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne goufhushhpvggtthffohhmrghinhculdegledmnecujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtugfg jggfsehtkeertddtreejnecuhfhrohhmpeetnhhgvghlohcurfgrphgvnhhhohhffhcuoe grrghpsehprghpnhgvthdrvghuqeenucffohhmrghinhepsggvlhhlqdhlrggsshdrtgho pdhgohhoghhlvgdrtghomhenucfkphepjeekrdehgedrudekfedruddtudenucfrrghrrg hmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprggrphesphgrphhnvghtrdgvuhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhi iigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: from indra.papnet.eu (x4e36b765.dyn.telefonica.de [78.54.183.101]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C36BD8005A for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 06:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 12:44:59 +0200 From: Angelo Papenhoff To: TUHS main list Message-ID: <20190828104459.GA7483@indra.papnet.eu> References: <5467B5A6-B084-424E-9493-52D7F03E4074@planet.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <5467B5A6-B084-424E-9493-52D7F03E4074@planet.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Subject: Re: [TUHS] dmr streams & networking [was: Re: If not Linux, then what?] X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 28/08/19, Paul Ruizendaal wrote: > > There is some contemporary material that gives a bit of context. The quotes are a bit contradictory and perhaps reflect evolving views. > > [1] > > The original dmr paper (1984) on streams (http://cm.bell-labs.co/who/dmr/st.html) seems to support the no networking view, focussing on terminal handling in its discussion. Also, near the end it says: "Streams are linear connections; by themselves, they support no notion of multiplexing, fan-in or fan-out. [...] It seems likely that a general multiplexing mechanism could help in both cases, but again, I do not yet know how to design it.” This seems to exclude usage for networking, which is typically multiplexed. > > [2] > > However, now that the V8 sources are available it is clear that the streams mechanism was used (by dmr?) to implement TCP/IP networking. He explains how that tallies with the above quote on multiplexing in a 1985 usenet post: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topicsearchin/net.unix-wizards/subject$3Astreams/net.unix-wizards/b7W_j_0qASU > The config files in the surviving TUHS V8 source tree actually match with the setup that dmr described in the penultimate paragraph. > Something else I found interesting is in v8's blit/Road.map: "Next, operating systems. We run under Berkeley 4.1bsd or Dennis Ritchie's stacked line-discipline system." That sounds to me like an early v8. If not, what was it? I'm really interested in the timeline here. How long was research running on a PDP-11 and when did they move to a VAX? aap