From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 044f80b7 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 20:07:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 427189BA12; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 06:07:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C212A9B937; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 06:07:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 414569B937; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 06:07:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B88019B8FB for ; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 06:06:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id 789AF35E11A; Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:06:59 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Clem Cole Message-ID: <20190913200659.GB2046@mcvoy.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Subject: Re: [TUHS] My EuroBSDcon talk (preview for commentary) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Sun had all their sources on one machine. Spent many a happy hour there reading. On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 04:02:30PM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > BTW: I just thought of something else.... one of the b*tched about the > commercial redistribution license from V7 in 1979, that was not fixed until > the SVR3 licensing the mid-late 1980s was AT&T's source policy. As I > said, a commercial source license was $20K for the first CPU and 5K for > each additional one. Later (System V) it went to $50K for the first and > $10K for each additional. But what really ticked off the vendors like > DEC, Masscomp, Sun et al, was that each system that sources on was supposed > to one of the 'second CPU licenses' - the binary license was not good > enough. > > What most of us did, was make sure any system that was a 'source control' > or 'master' system at any 'site' had a full source license, but we were all > in violation of the source agreement on our personal workstations. The > argument was the sources on people's machines was ephemeral and not > 'stored' there. But it was definitely contentious. > > > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 3:47 PM Clem Cole wrote: > > > slide 4 -- All of HP-UX, Ultrix and Digital UNIX/Tru64 are BSD kernels. > > HP-UP and Tru64 support System V calls. > > > > BTW: DG-UX and Stratus built their own kernels, but used System V command > > systems and System Call definitions - which are not listed. > > > > Slide 6 - if you want it I have another picture of the GE system from some > > of their literature has a view of all of the components. Send me email if > > you want it. > > > > Slide 8 - Sets out to write version of Fortran came up with B. Uses B to > > write Assembler > > > > Slide 9 - Wrong DEC logo. Should be the Blue one. The maroon version > > does not show up until the 1990s with Bob Palmer (and has bad memories for > > some of us). > > > > Slide 17 - Ken write PDP-11 assembler on PDP-7 in B. , Dennis starts to > > rewrite B compiler to output PDP-11 code. > > > > Slide 18 - B begins to become different enough that Dennis starts to call > > it nb [new B], eventually deviates enough to become new language > > > > Slide 19 - 4th Edition release outside of the BTL. Lou Katz becomes 'user > > zero' > > > > Slide 20 -- We need to get you the site and group name from Mash. It was > > not in Summit, it was not USG - but was in NJ. I thought it was Homdel but > > I that is purely speculation. > > Also the role of Columbus team needs to be defined. > > Ask Mary Ann. > > > > Slide 21 -- I'm not going to argue - but I would ask you to add a > > disclaimer. This is what you could reconstruct, but there is some > > question of some of the arrows. Heinz might be able to help, but as > > Stienhart and I have said, its believed to be in LA; but no one has tracked > > him down as he has been pursuing non-computer interests. > > > > Slide 22 --4th Edition went to Katz that this is wrong, who sometimes > > reads this mailing list. If not, send me a note, I'll reintroduce you. He > > might be able to give you a data. Check with Warren, my >>memory<< is that > > some of userland is still in C although a lot assembler is still there. > > > > Slide 23 -- ??widespread?? -- I'm not sure I would use that. Not even > > 100 sites yet. Also there were not "commercial version" this was the > > first "commercial license" -- big difference [contact me if you want > > explanation]. IIRC fee was 15K per CPU. Commercial redistribution doesn't > > occur until after 7th is released and was a separate license. I would > > add, Mike Lesk's portable C library is starting to be used, but most C > > program do their own I/O with read/write > > > > First real install man page and Dennis build tape installation > > system. Earlier version released as RK05 disk copies. > > Also numerous new peripherals. IIRC Support for the 11/40 > > starts here, 4th & 5th needed a 45 class, and earlier used the 20 with the > > CSS MMU. > > > > Slide 24 -- CMU uses it to teaches OS class. makes student in class sign > > a sub-license. > > > > Slide 25 - missing the first USENIX tapes. which include Harvard and the > > like. Warren and I can probably help a little here. > > > > Slide 26 - new licenses. Commercial license fees change to 20K for 1st > > CPU/5K for each CPU afterward. CMU buys first commercial license to use > > UNIX to make money [after Cole and Klein go on strike]. Case Western > > follows suit 6month later. AT&T agrees for the Universities that they > > only had to declare one CPU as commercial and could intermix otherwise and > > notifies all the universities that if they were using it for commercial > > purposes, then needed a license. > > > > AT&T creates first redistribution license. Needed at least one $20K > > commercial CPU and then $150k for the rights to redistribute. Originally > > $1K per binary CPU. > > > > Slide 27 -- missing Purdue Dual Vax and CMU Mach > > > > Slide 28 - APS had NH which was the model the DEC plate you show. Maddog > > has it now on his Jeep when aps moved to CA (he also has the NH Linux plate > > but I don't remember the car -- you can ask him). I have had the > > Massachusetts UNIX plate since 1983 (it's on my model S of course). ghg > > has indiana from around the same time (I think on a pickup). wnj had the > > CA vmunix on his Ferrari, but I don't know if he still has it or what its > > on. > > > > Slide 29 - Look in HenrySpencer-TUHS.org -- you'll find tail but not head. > > > > Slide 31 - Job Control can from Europe via MIT. Jim Kulp wrote it. Noel > > and I can give you the story if you want it. It was on the PDP-11 there. > > Joy modified csh and added it to 4.1 > > > > Slide 32 -- JC was not from UCB. Joy got it from MIT -- Dennis create > > ENV and it was first distributed in V7. > > > > Slide 33 -- No Bourne supported ENV in the new shell -- see me earlier > > email for how all this went down or ask Steve yourself. > > > > Slide 34 -- PCC was included, but the Ritchie Compiler (a.k.a. Typesetter > > C) was the default compiler. You are missing a step BTW -- typesetter C > > was released between V6 and V7. As is the first draft of the White Book. > > The new compiler had stdio but targets V6. > > Also mpx was part of DataKit support. > > > > Slide 35 -- Not sure that is true. I thought Microsoft's Xenix ships > > before Venix. Particularly since you made the comment about System III > > The original 8086 Xenix was a pure V7 port, with a few additions Gordon > > brought with him from Purdue (i.e. ghg hacks). > > > > Slide 52/53/54/55 -- wrong logo (see above) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 11:21 PM Warner Losh wrote: > > > >> OK. I've shared my slides for the talk. > >> > >> Some of the family trees are simplified (V7 doesn't have room for all its > >> ports, for example) > >> Some of it is a little cheeseball since I'm also trying to be witty and > >> entertaining (we'll see how that goes). > >> Please don't share them around until after my talk on the September 20th > >> > >> I'd like feedback on the bits I got wrong. Or left out. Or if you're in > >> this and don't want to be, etc. > >> > >> All the slides after the Questions slide won't be presented and will > >> likely be deleted. > >> > >> > >> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/177KxOif5oHARyIdZHDq-OO67_GVtMkzIAlDX-cHxgb4/edit?usp=sharing > >> > >> Please be kind (but if it sucks, please do tell). I've turned on > >> commenting on the slides. Probably best if you comment there. > >> > >> I have a video of me giving this talk, but it's too rough to share... > >> > >> Thanks for any help you can give me. > >> > >> Warner > >> > > -- --- Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm