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From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
To: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>, emanuel stiebler <emu@e-bbes.com>,
	Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>, Eric Allman <tuhs@eric.allman.name>,
	TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>,
	Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de
Subject: Re: [TUHS] [SPAM] Re:  SCCS
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 18:55:17 -0700
Message-ID: <20190914015517.GD12480@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190913230312.XaeCQ%steffen@sdaoden.eu>

On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 01:03:12AM +0200, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:
> He is as convinced from SCCS and its interleaved deltas as you
> are, but he works on extending the plain original SCCS, which is
> pretty smaller; his presentation from the "Chemnitzer Linux Tage
> 2012" (linux days of former Karl-Marx-Stadt) [1] talks about this
> and also prominently mentions BitKeeper:
> 
>   . All modern distributed OSS version control systems base upon
>     BitKeeper in the end.

Sort of.  Monotone, Darcs, and one other one I can't remember did not
draw from BitKeeper.  Mercurial, Git, and the Australian one that I
can't remember definitely do.

>   . BitKeeper bases upon the ideas of TeamWare.

Only in that I am the primary author of both.  It does support the idea
that SCCS is the basis for both, though Teamware used the real SCCS and
I rewrote SCCS from scratch and then extended it quite a bit.  BitKeeper's
SCCS tracks a lot more than SCCS does, pathnames, permissions, hostnames,
etc.

>   . TeamWare bases upon the ideas of NSE.

That's absolutely false.  TeamWare, which is the productized version
of NSElite, which I wrote all of, was a reaction to how absolute shiite
NSE was.  I had friends in the Sun kernel group that quit because they
were forced to use NSE.  It was awful.  I got into source management 
because I was well known at Sun as the guy that could fix performance
problems so I was asked to look at NSE.  One look told me that I couldn't
fix NSE but the source management problem space needed some help.

>   . NSE is a frontend to SCCS.

That's true.

>   . Therewith all modern systems ultimately base upon SCCS.

That is a big stretch, it's just not true.  I love the SCCS file 
format but to say all modern systems are based on SCCS is 100%
false.  BitKeeper is.  That's it.

>   . Distributed operate TeamWare, BitKeeper, git, Mercurial.

Git and Mercurial were going for append only data structures. 
That's not SCCS.

All this comes from Jorg, isn't he the guy who has a track record of
being on the outside of Sun and trying to argue with me about what Sun
was doing when I was a well known guy in the most important group at Sun,
the kernel group.  If so, I'd salt his stuff heavily.

I think he means well but is a little out there.  Though some people
might say the same about me.

--lm

  reply index

Thread overview: 88+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-09-09  6:25 [TUHS] PWB vs Unix/TS Warner Losh
2019-09-09  6:36 ` arnold
2019-09-10 15:16 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11  0:28   ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11  3:53   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-11 15:36     ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 16:55       ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was " Charles H Sauer
2019-09-12 19:31         ` Kevin Bowling
2019-09-12 20:59           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-12 21:09             ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses - Series/1 NUXI Ronald Natalie
2019-09-12 21:31             ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS Warner Losh
2019-09-12 22:30             ` jcs
2019-09-12 23:12               ` reed
2019-09-12 23:22                 ` jcs
2019-09-12 23:29               ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses Warren Toomey
2019-09-13  7:06                 ` arnold
2019-09-13  8:30                 ` SPC
2019-09-14 18:29                   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-12 21:29           ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS Charles H Sauer
2019-09-11 17:49       ` [TUHS] " Richard Salz
2019-09-11 17:52         ` ron
2019-09-11 21:44           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 18:11       ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-11 18:18         ` Richard Salz
2019-09-11 18:54           ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-11 21:05             ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11 21:34             ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11 21:57             ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 22:50               ` Arthur Krewat
2019-09-11 21:59           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 21:50         ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 22:49         ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-12  3:43           ` [TUHS] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-12  4:20             ` George Michaelson
2019-09-12  4:31               ` [TUHS] [SPAM] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-12 13:44                 ` Tony Finch
2019-09-13  4:11                   ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13  5:54                     ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-13  8:00                       ` Peter Jeremy
2019-09-13 15:23                         ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13 21:36                         ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-12  4:28             ` [TUHS] SCCS Jon Forrest
2019-09-12  4:33               ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-12  6:12                 ` William Corcoran
2019-09-12 14:35                   ` Clem Cole
2019-09-13  5:22                 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-13  5:50                   ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-12 16:45               ` Eric Allman
2019-09-12 17:29                 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-12 17:47                   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-13  8:12                   ` emanuel stiebler
2019-09-13 21:11                     ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-13 21:17                       ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13 21:48                         ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-13 23:12                           ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-13 23:03                         ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-14  1:55                           ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2019-09-16 17:23                             ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-16 20:31                               ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-17 17:57                                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-18  8:48                               ` Eric Allman
2019-09-18 17:33                                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-12 20:07             ` Nemo
2019-09-11 16:05   ` [TUHS] PWB vs Unix/TS Paul Winalski
2019-09-11 17:14     ` ron
2019-09-14  0:44   ` [TUHS] a book (was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS) reed
2019-09-14  2:53     ` Warner Losh
2019-09-15  2:18       ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15  2:39         ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15  3:24         ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-14 22:46     ` Clem cole
2019-09-15  0:58       ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-15  3:30         ` Eric Allman
2019-09-15  4:21           ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-15  5:17             ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15 20:14               ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 20:21                 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15 20:12           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 21:28             ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-15 23:27               ` Clem cole
2019-09-15 23:45                 ` Richard Salz
2019-09-15  7:43     ` Andy Kosela
2019-09-13 22:01 [TUHS] [SPAM] Re: SCCS Norman Wilson
2019-09-13 22:30 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-16 10:59   ` Tony Finch
2019-09-16 12:11 ` Leah Neukirchen
2019-09-16 21:45   ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-16 22:21     ` George Michaelson

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