From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 22f14e86 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 03:43:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 31C319BF49; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:43:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B2E59BD5A; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:43:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 77DD29BD5A; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:43:15 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 408 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:43:14 AEST Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E1939BA1C for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:43:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from callcc.thunk.org (pool-72-93-95-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [72.93.95.157]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x8G3aIAD012384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:36:19 -0400 Received: by callcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 19811420811; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:36:18 -0400 From: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" To: Clem Cole Message-ID: <20190916033618.GC22035@mit.edu> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Subject: Re: [TUHS] My EuroBSDcon talk (preview for commentary) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 05:46:42PM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > By the time of V7, the clones do start showing up. Minux which everyone > agreed was original, as well as Mark William's Coherent, which in the end > AT&T backed off. But as Dennis said at the time something to the effect, > that it was not clear they had directly used AT&T sources to build it, as > much as the authors clearly had *seen/had access to UNIX operating and used > it to build Coherent, plus they probably had seen the UNIX sources* at some > point (this was important later when AT&T would make 'Trade Secret' claims). One really interesting anecdote about the "Trade Secret" claims, is that the MIT Unix license never had the "methods and concepts" clause in it. The MIT Administration/Lawyers considered in unconscionable the brains of MIT students might get encumbered by AT&T, and outright rejected that clause. Apparently MIT had a lot more clout (and probably alumni in high places at AT&T), so MIT was able to make the "no methods and concepts" clause stick. For each new version of Unix from AT&T, this issue would come up, and eventually, the Unix license would get included in Grant contracts where AT&T really, really wanted MIT to do research in some area, and apparently MIT had enough leverage to get successive Unix license updates, all without the infamous "methods and concepts" clause. At one point, even though MIT had the necessary licenses so it could be allowed to receive Ultrix or OSF/1 sources, AT&T's licensing division refused to confirm (or deny) whether or not MIT had a valid Unix source license, and so this caused problems for MIT to be able to get an official version of Ultrix or OSF/1 sources. No matter, MIT had even more alumni and connections which Digital, so when a tape was eventually installed in Project Athena's AFS cell, it was apparently an active source tree from some engineering directory, completely with core dumps and editor backup files.... So while I have looked at BSD 4.3 sources when I was a student systems programmer, I have it on good authority from people who were staff members on Project Athena at the time, that my brain was not owned by AT&T due to that nasty "methods and concepts" clause --- because the MIT Unix source license didn't have that nonsense. - Ted