From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 0adadb97 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 16:45:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id AAF109BF47; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 02:45:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7022E9478F; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 02:45:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DE1EA9478F; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 02:45:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71D269478D for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 02:45:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id 03CE835E11A; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 09:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 09:45:02 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Richard Salz Message-ID: <20190916164502.GQ2046@mcvoy.com> References: <201909160552.x8G5qBYK025195@freefriends.org> <20190916145122.GH2046@mcvoy.com> <20190916161040.GM2046@mcvoy.com> <201909161616.x8GGG4Fb020760@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20190916162614.GO2046@mcvoy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Subject: Re: [TUHS] earliest Unix roff X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 12:31:13PM -0400, Richard Salz wrote: > I don't think it's totally GNU's fault that it became Linux. They weren't > trying to be tourists in Rome, they were trying to create a new city of > their own. Yeah, except they didn't create their own city, they pooped all over a different one. There is no defense for what they did. If they did the right thing they would have created a markup language that could have produced info files and man files. It's not that hard, I wrote something called webroff that took -ms format input and produced a website complete with the navigation tree, it defaulted to showing you a page (each .NH) at time but it also had a site map where you could see the entire document as a single page, or each major section (.NH 1) as a page. For more than a decade this was BitMover's home page. I can't tell you how many sales calls I've been on and I've seen the entire web site printed out on the manager's desk. The reality is there was absolutely no need for a new format for info files, they could have parsed man input and produced info files and that's what they should have done. Those who defend the choice of info over man just aren't real Unix people. And that's fine, Unix isn't the only choice, they can go run some other OS and be happy. But it's just rude to thrust info into a Unix system. And lame because they could have parsed man pages into info docs and then they are adopting the Unix way of doing things and actually adding value.