From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 1018f4e9 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:28:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 072169BFDA; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 03:28:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FCE9478F; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 03:28:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 912CC9478F; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 03:28:35 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 559 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 03:28:34 AEST Received: from vm6.ganeti.dyne.org (vm6.ganeti.dyne.org [195.169.149.119]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEC2E9478D for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 03:28:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (Authenticated sender: katolaz@freaknet.org) with ESMTPSA id 521A9F60477 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 19:19:05 +0200 From: KatolaZ To: Larry McVoy Message-ID: <20190916171905.piituc2qdh46kejt@unixfarts.net> References: <201909160552.x8G5qBYK025195@freefriends.org> <20190916145122.GH2046@mcvoy.com> <20190916161040.GM2046@mcvoy.com> <201909161616.x8GGG4Fb020760@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20190916162614.GO2046@mcvoy.com> <20190916164502.GQ2046@mcvoy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bl4fs45hjtwqlkeq" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190916164502.GQ2046@mcvoy.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Subject: Re: [TUHS] earliest Unix roff X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --bl4fs45hjtwqlkeq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 09:45:02AM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote: [cut] >=20 > Those who defend the choice of info over man just aren't real Unix > people. And that's fine, Unix isn't the only choice, they can go > run some other OS and be happy. But it's just rude to thrust info > into a Unix system. And lame because they could have parsed man > pages into info docs and then they are adopting the Unix way of > doing things and actually adding value. Sorry, but I totally don't see the point here. The problem is not the technology, but the adopters. I personally don't like info at all, and still swear whenever a software comes without a proper manpage, but info has not been shovelled down your throat (or anybody else's, for that matter). The adopters have decided that info was fine for their use case. They could have written manpages and send patches over, and in many cases they didn't. There is plenty of software coming from the GNU project that has comprehensive and clear manpages (just to cite a single example, bash(1) comes with manpages, and no info doc). At the same time, there is tons of "Unix" software around that comes without any documentation *at all*, or with scant text files covering the bare basics. Unfortunately this trend is only getting worse, and we have far too many notaable examples here, not all of them coming from the GNU project, or from the "ITS tradition", whatever it means for you. I agree that whoever does not produce a readily usable documentaion for their software has not really understood much of the Unix philosophy. But that's not at all a matter of formats, rather of culture. Then, if you just want to vomit on info, or you prefer to use info as another excuse to vomit on the GNU project, well go ahead. But the actual issue is elsewhere (the lack of respect for the users, and the tendency to hide stuff under the carpet), and has not been introduced by the GNU project, at all. My2Cents Enzo Nicosia --bl4fs45hjtwqlkeq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQSOWdaqRF79tKFTPVpfILOuC18GLwUCXX/EAgAKCRBfILOuC18G LwPwAJ9+9xIoUF3OE42ZZ7IHmI3HRSBp9ACeL4/4AD+e+0fjn8Vq6J8NodkvRAY= =dMi2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bl4fs45hjtwqlkeq--