From: Jon Steinhart <jon@fourwinds.com>
To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] earliest Unix roff
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:37:03 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <201909161737.x8GHb3SG008244@darkstar.fourwinds.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190916171905.piituc2qdh46kejt@unixfarts.net>
KatolaZ writes:
> Sorry, but I totally don't see the point here. The problem is not the
> technology, but the adopters. I personally don't like info at all, and
> still swear whenever a software comes without a proper manpage, but
> info has not been shovelled down your throat (or anybody else's, for
> that matter). The adopters have decided that info was fine for their
> use case. They could have written manpages and send patches over, and
> in many cases they didn't.
>
> There is plenty of software coming from the GNU project that has
> comprehensive and clear manpages (just to cite a single example,
> bash(1) comes with manpages, and no info doc). At the same time, there
> is tons of "Unix" software around that comes without any documentation
> *at all*, or with scant text files covering the bare basics.
>
> Unfortunately this trend is only getting worse, and we have far too
> many notaable examples here, not all of them coming from the GNU
> project, or from the "ITS tradition", whatever it means for you.
>
> I agree that whoever does not produce a readily usable documentaion
> for their software has not really understood much of the Unix
> philosophy. But that's not at all a matter of formats, rather of
> culture.
>
> Then, if you just want to vomit on info, or you prefer to use info as
> another excuse to vomit on the GNU project, well go ahead. But the
> actual issue is elsewhere (the lack of respect for the users, and the
> tendency to hide stuff under the carpet), and has not been introduced
> by the GNU project, at all.
>
> My2Cents
>
> Enzo Nicosia
It seems to me that you're missing the point here. It's not a question of
whether or not GNU programs have good documentation. It's the fact that
GNU made it hard to find documentation because they took one pile and split
it into two with no guide to what was in each pile. It's not that their
documentation was good or bad, it's that they made it hard to find any
documentation.
Maybe it's because I'm a child of the 60s, but I'm with Arlo Guthrie on this
one (from Alice's Restaurant): "And we decided that one big pile is better
than two little piles, and rather than bring that one up we decided to throw
ours down."
Jon
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-09-16 17:37 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 148+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-09-13 3:20 [TUHS] My EuroBSDcon talk (preview for commentary) Warner Losh
2019-09-13 9:03 ` Branden Robinson
2019-09-13 19:47 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-13 20:02 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-13 20:06 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-13 20:24 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-13 20:43 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-13 20:53 ` Diomidis Spinellis
2019-09-13 21:45 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-13 22:13 ` [TUHS] earliest Unix roff Warren Toomey
2019-09-13 22:55 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-14 2:02 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-14 2:44 ` Warren Toomey
2019-09-15 2:56 ` U'll Be King of the Stars
2019-09-15 6:54 ` arnold
2019-09-15 7:01 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-15 16:17 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15 17:23 ` Ronald Natalie
2019-09-15 19:48 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 21:16 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-15 7:32 ` U'll Be King of the Stars
2019-09-15 7:46 ` arnold
2019-09-15 19:37 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-16 5:52 ` arnold
2019-09-16 12:10 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-16 12:26 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2019-09-16 13:42 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-16 14:54 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-16 16:09 ` Paul Winalski
2019-09-16 22:05 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-16 22:33 ` reed
2019-09-17 0:11 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-17 0:02 ` Nemo Nusquam
2019-09-17 0:21 ` Arthur Krewat
2019-09-17 11:12 ` Thomas Paulsen
2019-09-17 0:46 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-16 13:13 ` Chet Ramey
2019-09-16 14:51 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-16 14:57 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-16 15:14 ` Richard Salz
2019-09-16 15:48 ` Ronald Natalie
2019-09-16 16:10 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-16 16:16 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-16 16:26 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-16 16:31 ` Richard Salz
2019-09-16 16:45 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-16 17:19 ` KatolaZ
2019-09-16 17:24 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-16 17:32 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-16 17:35 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-16 17:37 ` Jon Steinhart [this message]
2019-09-16 18:09 ` [TUHS] [OT] " KatolaZ
2019-09-16 18:19 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-16 18:04 ` [TUHS] " Chet Ramey
2019-09-16 18:19 ` KatolaZ
2019-09-16 23:24 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-16 17:24 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-16 17:00 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-17 11:20 ` Thomas Paulsen
2019-09-16 19:13 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-16 19:31 ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-16 22:35 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-17 7:53 ` arnold
2019-09-17 14:21 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-17 15:03 ` arnold
2019-09-17 15:58 ` Christopher Browne
2019-09-17 18:15 ` arnold
2019-09-17 18:32 ` Warner Losh
2019-09-18 0:42 ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-16 21:42 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-16 21:48 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-16 21:54 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-16 21:59 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-17 5:07 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2019-09-16 22:10 ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-17 0:16 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2019-09-17 0:31 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-17 12:20 ` David
2019-10-05 19:44 ` Michael Parson
2019-09-15 19:35 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 20:49 ` U'll Be King of the Stars
2019-09-16 6:20 ` arnold
2019-09-16 12:13 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-16 12:34 ` arnold
2019-09-16 14:52 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-17 0:10 ` [TUHS] O'Reilly groff macros (was: earliest Unix roff) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2019-09-17 0:51 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-17 0:54 ` [TUHS] O'Reilly groff macros U'll Be King of the Stars
2019-09-17 1:03 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-17 1:41 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2019-09-17 1:58 ` Clem cole
2019-09-15 19:27 ` [TUHS] earliest Unix roff Clem Cole
2019-09-15 19:31 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-14 7:35 ` [TUHS] My EuroBSDcon talk (preview for commentary) Diomidis Spinellis
2019-09-13 21:31 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-17 19:29 ` Warner Losh
2019-09-17 20:17 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-17 19:18 ` Warner Losh
2019-09-17 20:13 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-13 20:06 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-14 6:13 ` Wesley Parish
2019-09-15 21:46 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 23:25 ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-15 23:35 ` Clem cole
2019-09-16 1:42 ` Warner Losh
2019-09-16 1:52 ` Clem cole
2019-09-16 2:05 ` George Michaelson
2019-09-16 2:37 ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-16 3:29 ` [TUHS] INed/Rand Editor/Ned [was " Charles H. Sauer
2019-09-16 14:53 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-16 16:16 ` Warner Losh
2019-09-16 20:21 ` G. Branden Robinson
2019-09-16 20:47 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-16 22:33 ` George Michaelson
2019-09-16 23:14 ` G. Branden Robinson
2019-10-09 1:10 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2019-09-16 22:48 ` [TUHS] better ways and termcap vs. terminfo " G. Branden Robinson
2019-09-17 11:46 ` [TUHS] INed/Rand Editor/Ned [was Re: My EuroBSDcon talk (preview " Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-09-17 12:52 ` G. Branden Robinson
2019-10-09 0:38 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2019-09-16 1:31 ` [TUHS] " William Pechter
2019-09-16 1:48 ` Clem cole
2019-09-16 2:24 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-16 2:31 ` Toby Thain
2019-09-16 3:36 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-09-15 2:45 [TUHS] earliest Unix roff Doug McIlroy
2019-09-15 22:07 Doug McIlroy
2019-09-17 0:20 ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-17 1:11 ` Arthur Krewat
2019-09-17 1:17 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-17 1:26 ` Clem cole
2019-09-17 1:33 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-17 22:39 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-17 1:36 ` Richard Salz
2019-09-17 1:57 ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-17 1:19 ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-19 18:10 Norman Wilson
2019-09-19 18:37 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-19 18:44 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-19 19:44 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-19 20:38 ` John P. Linderman
2019-09-20 13:41 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-20 15:03 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-19 20:53 ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-19 18:42 Norman Wilson
2019-09-19 22:42 ` Rob Pike
2019-09-19 22:55 ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-19 18:50 [TUHS] [OT] " Norman Wilson
2019-09-19 19:00 ` Nemo Nusquam
2019-09-19 20:18 ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-19 20:42 ` [TUHS] " Andy Kosela
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