From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 79e44dcc for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:04:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6FD4394812; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 01:04:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17362947CC; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 01:04:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 79D72947CC; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 01:04:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: from freefriends.org (freefriends.org [96.88.95.60]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0FCD947A2; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 01:04:10 +1000 (AEST) X-Envelope-From: arnold@skeeve.com Received: from freefriends.org (freefriends.org [96.88.95.60]) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x8HF3hb3016269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:03:44 -0600 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id x8HF3fRX016265; Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:03:41 -0600 From: arnold@skeeve.com Message-Id: <201909171503.x8HF3fRX016265@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: arnold set sender to arnold@skeeve.com using -f Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:03:41 -0600 To: clemc@ccc.com, arnold@skeeve.com References: <20190913221345.GA16129@minnie.tuhs.org> <20190914020240.GO2046@mcvoy.com> <20190914024433.GA19193@minnie.tuhs.org> <2e84c4d0-5239-b223-856d-00aacf8d3028@andrewnesbit.org> <201909150654.x8F6sChG021185@freefriends.org> <201909160552.x8G5qBYK025195@freefriends.org> <20190916145122.GH2046@mcvoy.com> <201909170753.x8H7r8oT004491@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 7/5/10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] earliest Unix roff X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Yes, I think the next time anyone says anything about markup languages, I'll just use private mail. Thanks, Arnold Clem Cole wrote: > Fair enough. Mei culpa from one of those that was vocal. That said, maybe > a trick is to stay away from texinfo/info and the man page discussion on > this list since its a hot button that causes much trama for some with a > more traditional UNIX view. > > Please don't leave, your voice is important and I generally agree with you > and always like to hear you out. But even if I do not agree, I still want > to listen. You have come to your conclusions in a different manner than > some of us, and where each of us puts the MSB tends to color our views. > Diversity of opinion is a good thing. > > Respectfully, > Clem > ᐧ > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 3:53 AM wrote: > > > It is like clockwork. > > > > Whenever I say something about Texinfo *as a markup language* for use > > in *writing books*, the discussion inevitably degenerates into a hate > > rant against Info and RMS's (failed) attempt to replace man pages. > > Totally missing the point too. > > > > This is a trend on TUHS. The same discussions, the same rants, often > > the same misinformation, over and over and over again. > > > > I start to wonder if I should continue to subscribe. > > > > Arnold > > > > Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 08:10:48AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 1:52 AM wrote: > > > > > > > > > I use the standalone Info reader (named info) if I want to look at > > the > > > > > Info output. > > > > > > > > > Fair enough, but be careful, while I admit I have not looked in a > > while, > > > > info(gnu) relies on emacs keybindings and a number of very emacs'ish > > things. > > > > Every time I have tried to deal with it, I have unprogram my fingers > > and > > > > reset them to emacs. > > > > > > > > If it would have used more(1) [or even less(1)] then I would not be as > > > > annoyed. > > > > Unix had fine tools [man(1), more(1), et al] and rms and friends felt > > the > > > > need to replace them with ITS-like programs. > > > > > > I hate texinfo and friends. I get why it is better than man, but man was > > > good enough, more than good enough, and the GNU project took everything > > > it could find and destroyed the man pages. > > > > > > If you have something like perl that needs a zillion sub pages, info > > > makes sense. For just a man page, info is horrible. > >