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* [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
@ 2019-10-02 22:34 reed
  2019-10-09 13:30 ` reed
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: reed @ 2019-10-02 22:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

The Dallas Ft. Worth UNIX Users Group
will be highlighting the 50th anniversary on October 10,
November 14, and maybe in December.
http://www.dfwuug.org/wiki/Main/Welcome

I will be presenting about the early history next week
and then about BSD-specific history in November.

Any of you in the DFW area? Any suggestions on anyone local to invite? I 
am also looking for anyone local who can display old hardware or 
materials at the event. I only have some old books and training 
materials from 1980's.

Does anyone have scanned copies of early Lions commentary? (Not the 2000 
printing, unless it looks identical, please let me know.)

I will try to share my slides to this list by end of this week. (I did 
look at an early draft of Warner's slides, but didn't look at his final 
slides nor watch his presentation yet. My presentation is from scratch 
for now.)

Jeremy C. Reed

echo Ohl zl obbx uggc://errqzrqvn.arg/obbxf/csfrafr/ | \
 tr "Onoqrsuvxzabcefghl" "Babdefhikmnoprstuy"


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
  2019-10-02 22:34 [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10 reed
@ 2019-10-09 13:30 ` reed
  2019-10-09 16:31   ` Warner Losh
  2019-10-09 16:47   ` Lars Brinkhoff
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: reed @ 2019-10-09 13:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019, reed@reedmedia.net wrote:

> Does anyone have scanned copies of early Lions commentary? (Not the 2000 
> printing, unless it looks identical, please let me know.)

I got copied of the cover and front page off-list. Thank you!

> I will try to share my slides to this list by end of this week. (I did 
> look at an early draft of Warner's slides, but didn't look at his final 
> slides nor watch his presentation yet. My presentation is from scratch 
> for now.)

I have a rough draft of around 63 slides. I have a maybe around 10 more 
to add. It is too much content for an hour. Temporarily they are at
http://reedmedia.net/~reed/pres/.tmp-ibu4txv873cv/
pdf is 63 slides at ~5MB
(please don't distribute as I didn't yet cite sources in it nor have 
re-use statements for some images I borrowed.)
J.tex is the source for the pdf.
The real source is the notes in the .data file there. (It is a mess.)
I plan to add a few photos of the earliest participants (as named in 
the research edition manuals.)
I will add a few pages about Berkeley Unix up to 3BSD. (Later will do 
one hour talk just on BSD.)

Few questions:

If using a 4.5 inch diameter roll of paper for the TTY, how did you cut 
the paper into 11 inch pages? Or did you just let it roll up?

Anyone have a pointer to the photo of a Graphic Systems (GSI) 
phototypesetter (1973)? (for troff v3 slide)

Was patent department that first used Unix on PDP-11 and roff (~1971)
same department that would later handle Unix licensing two years later? 
(~1973)

Anyone have a pointer to a picture of GE 635 or 645 system? (for multics 
slide)


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
  2019-10-09 13:30 ` reed
@ 2019-10-09 16:31   ` Warner Losh
  2019-10-10  5:37     ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2019-10-09 16:47   ` Lars Brinkhoff
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2019-10-09 16:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jeremy C. Reed; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:30 AM <reed@reedmedia.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019, reed@reedmedia.net wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have scanned copies of early Lions commentary? (Not the 2000
> > printing, unless it looks identical, please let me know.)
>
> I got copied of the cover and front page off-list. Thank you!
>
> > I will try to share my slides to this list by end of this week. (I did
> > look at an early draft of Warner's slides, but didn't look at his final
> > slides nor watch his presentation yet. My presentation is from scratch
> > for now.)
>
> I have a rough draft of around 63 slides. I have a maybe around 10 more
> to add. It is too much content for an hour. Temporarily they are at
> http://reedmedia.net/~reed/pres/.tmp-ibu4txv873cv/
> pdf is 63 slides at ~5MB
> (please don't distribute as I didn't yet cite sources in it nor have
> re-use statements for some images I borrowed.)
> J.tex is the source for the pdf.
> The real source is the notes in the .data file there. (It is a mess.)
> I plan to add a few photos of the earliest participants (as named in
> the research edition manuals.)
> I will add a few pages about Berkeley Unix up to 3BSD. (Later will do
> one hour talk just on BSD.)
>
> Few questions:
>
> If using a 4.5 inch diameter roll of paper for the TTY, how did you cut
> the paper into 11 inch pages? Or did you just let it roll up?
>
> Anyone have a pointer to the photo of a Graphic Systems (GSI)
> phototypesetter (1973)? (for troff v3 slide)
>
> Was patent department that first used Unix on PDP-11 and roff (~1971)
> same department that would later handle Unix licensing two years later?
> (~1973)
>
> Anyone have a pointer to a picture of GE 635 or 645 system? (for multics
> slide)
>

You can find images at:

https://multicians.org/drv-bull.html (says its a GE-645 installed in Paris)

https://multicians.org/mulimg/radc-bldg3-a.jpg (ROME building 3
GECOS/Honeywell systems)

https://multicians.org/645artist.html (weird artist's conception)

In general, there's several images on the multicians page. In my talk I
found one of a later Honeywell system that I mistakenly thought was a 645.

Great slides. Good detail on the bell-labs stream of innovation (better
than my talk by far, I think). Great use of early manual artifacts to drive
the story telling. It's clearly only slightly related to my talk and that
it was done from scratch with at most an element or two from my talk that
could easily have come from this list instead.

So some feedback:

The slide that has LSI-Unix is missing mini-unix. If you look at the AUUGN
news letters, that's mentioned much more than LSI-Unix, so it was out in
the wild.

CB-UNIX had its origins in SCCS Unix, which was derived from a ~1st edition
Unix for a switch (SCCS here is Switch Control Center System) done by New
Jersey Bell in 1972. It took in snapshots from research unix from time to
time. After V6, CB-Unix 1.0 was done based on it, with its additions in the
areas of IPC and enhancements for production systems. After V7, there was a
2.x series. This was later merged with System III / Unix/TS 3.0 to produce
what would become System V (I found conflicting accounts of whether this
was done in Unix/TS 4.0 (never released outside of bell labs) or in Unix TS
5.0). The merges were what we'd call "cherry picks" today: the IPC features
and some minor other things were re-done for the Unix/TS environment and
would become what we call today System V IPC. CB-Unix had infrastructure to
port to multiple CPUs, but really only ran on the 11/70. The IPC system was
called maus (pronounced mouse, evidently). We gave man pages and source for
it in PDF form in the TUHS archive. I'm slowly plowing through OCRing the
sources... All this work was done in Columbus OH. Unix/TS targeted time
sharing systems that developers, secretaries, etc used. CB-UNIX targeted
call record collection systems and similar "production" systems.

MERT is interesting... It ported V4 Unix to run under a PDP-11
hypervisor... It was later called UNIX/RT and merged code from V5 and/or V6
(the recollections differ), but not V7 as the system call ABI changed for
that. It was cancelled in favor of Unix/TS, but hung on to life, was ported
to the 3B2 and later systems to become DMERT...  There's hints of this
scattered in the different bell labs technical journals and in the TUHS
archive of recollections of early unix from the 80s on usenet.

I'll have to go through the PWB stuff in more detail than I have time right
now.

I'm unsure the thing you labeled as DISPLAY-2 is the DISPLAY-2 or the
standard Option 340 display. I know people on this list said it was a
display-2 (maybe my early slides did as well). Based on pictures in the
PDP-7 manuals, I think it was the 340...

Where are you giving it?

Warner

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* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
  2019-10-09 13:30 ` reed
  2019-10-09 16:31   ` Warner Losh
@ 2019-10-09 16:47   ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2019-10-09 16:54     ` Arthur Krewat
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2019-10-09 16:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: reed; +Cc: tuhs

Reed wrote:
> Anyone have a pointer to a picture of GE 635 or 645 system?

I linke this one, because it's from MIT.  Unfortunately it's very small.

https://multicians.org/phase-one.html

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
  2019-10-09 16:47   ` Lars Brinkhoff
@ 2019-10-09 16:54     ` Arthur Krewat
  2019-10-10  9:11       ` Lars Brinkhoff
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Arthur Krewat @ 2019-10-09 16:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs



On 10/9/2019 12:47 PM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
> Reed wrote:
>> Anyone have a pointer to a picture of GE 635 or 645 system?
> I linke this one, because it's from MIT.  Unfortunately it's very small.
>
> https://multicians.org/phase-one.html
>
Lars, you need to be more of a link hacker ;)

https://multicians.org/mulimg/martin-widrig-645.jpg



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
@ 2019-10-09 17:19 jnc
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: jnc @ 2019-10-09 17:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: krewat, tuhs; +Cc: h

    > From: Lars Brinkhoff

    > Unfortunately it's very small.

There's a larger version hiding 'behind' it.

There are very few 645 images. There's the large painting of a 645, which
for many years hung in the hallway on the 5th floor of Tech Sq:

 https://multicians.org/645artist.html

	Noel

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
@ 2019-10-10  3:31 Doug McIlroy
  2019-10-10  3:49 ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Doug McIlroy @ 2019-10-10  3:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

> Was patent department that first used Unix on PDP-11 and roff (~1971)
> same department that would later handle Unix licensing two years later?
> (~1973)

No. The former was the BTL legal and patent department. The latter was
at AT&T (or perhaps Western Electric).

Doug

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
  2019-10-10  3:31 Doug McIlroy
@ 2019-10-10  3:49 ` Warner Losh
  2019-10-10  4:21   ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2019-10-10  3:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Doug McIlroy; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 9:32 PM Doug McIlroy <doug@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

> > Was patent department that first used Unix on PDP-11 and roff (~1971)
> > same department that would later handle Unix licensing two years later?
> > (~1973)
>
> No. The former was the BTL legal and patent department. The latter was
> at AT&T (or perhaps Western Electric)
>

I know all the later contracts were with western electric... we have them
due to the bsd/at&t lawsuit, right?

Warner

>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
  2019-10-10  3:49 ` Warner Losh
@ 2019-10-10  4:21   ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2019-10-10  4:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Doug McIlroy; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 9:49 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 9:32 PM Doug McIlroy <doug@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>> > Was patent department that first used Unix on PDP-11 and roff (~1971)
>> > same department that would later handle Unix licensing two years later?
>> > (~1973)
>>
>> No. The former was the BTL legal and patent department. The latter was
>> at AT&T (or perhaps Western Electric)
>>
>
> I know all the later contracts were with western electric... we have them
> due to the bsd/at&t lawsuit, right?
>

Ah, Berkeley's contract for Oct 73 is with Western Electric.

Warner

>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
  2019-10-09 16:31   ` Warner Losh
@ 2019-10-10  5:37     ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2019-10-10 14:21       ` reed
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2019-10-10  5:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

Warner Losh wrote:
> I'm unsure the thing you labeled as DISPLAY-2 is the DISPLAY-2 or the
> standard Option 340 display. I know people on this list said it was a
> display-2 (maybe my early slides did as well). Based on pictures in
> the PDP-7 manuals, I think it was the 340...

The photo does look much like a 340 CRT.  Is there anything known about
how the GRAPHICS-2 (not DISPLAY-2, right?) hardware was built?  Is it
possible a 340 CRT was repurposed for GRAPHICS-2?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
  2019-10-09 16:54     ` Arthur Krewat
@ 2019-10-10  9:11       ` Lars Brinkhoff
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2019-10-10  9:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Arthur Krewat; +Cc: tuhs

Arthur Krewat wrote:
> Lars, you need to be more of a link hacker ;)
> https://multicians.org/mulimg/martin-widrig-645.jpg

Well, it's not my preferred type of hacking.

Here's another one... or is it?  File name says 635, but the caption
says "Mary Thompson, Jerry Clancy, Don Widrig; Project MAC, 1967" There
was no 635 at Project MAC, was there?

https://multicians.org/mulimg/mrt-gfc-drw-635.jpg

"Mary Thompson and Noel Morris at MIT Project MAC GE-645 Multics
machine, 1967"

https://multicians.org/thvv/vvimg/mrt-nim-645.jpg

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
  2019-10-10  5:37     ` Lars Brinkhoff
@ 2019-10-10 14:21       ` reed
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: reed @ 2019-10-10 14:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Brinkhoff; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:

> Warner Losh wrote:
> > I'm unsure the thing you labeled as DISPLAY-2 is the DISPLAY-2 or the
> > standard Option 340 display. I know people on this list said it was a
> > display-2 (maybe my early slides did as well). Based on pictures in
> > the PDP-7 manuals, I think it was the 340...
> 
> The photo does look much like a 340 CRT.  Is there anything known about
> how the GRAPHICS-2 (not DISPLAY-2, right?) hardware was built?  Is it
> possible a 340 CRT was repurposed for GRAPHICS-2?

https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/McIlroy_v0/03-scope.pdf
Jump down to page 20 and more.

Also see some of the PDP-7 assembler code in same directory
about "G-2" and "graphic-2" (keyboard and display) etc.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
@ 2019-10-10 15:20 jnc
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: jnc @ 2019-10-10 15:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs; +Cc: jnc

    > From: Lars Brinkhoff

    > There was no 635 at Project MAC, was there?

I seem to recall reading about one. And in:

  https://multicians.org/chrono.html

there's this entry: "08/65 GE 635 delivered to Project MAC". Clicking on the
'GE 635' link leads to "MIT's GE-635 system was installed on the ninth floor
of 545 Tech Square in 1965, and used to support a simulated 645 until the real
hardware was delivered."

	Noel

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10
@ 2019-10-10 19:41 Berny Goodheart
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Berny Goodheart @ 2019-10-10 19:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TUHS

I have “The” original first versions from John signed by him and Ken. Among a lot of other stuff….

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

end of thread, back to index

Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2019-10-02 22:34 [TUHS] History talk in Dallas Texas October 10 reed
2019-10-09 13:30 ` reed
2019-10-09 16:31   ` Warner Losh
2019-10-10  5:37     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2019-10-10 14:21       ` reed
2019-10-09 16:47   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2019-10-09 16:54     ` Arthur Krewat
2019-10-10  9:11       ` Lars Brinkhoff
2019-10-09 17:19 jnc
2019-10-10  3:31 Doug McIlroy
2019-10-10  3:49 ` Warner Losh
2019-10-10  4:21   ` Warner Losh
2019-10-10 15:20 jnc
2019-10-10 19:41 Berny Goodheart

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