From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id ad6739b5 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 17:45:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id AB1DB9B87B; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 03:45:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47FF93D07; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 03:45:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BD7EF93D07; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 03:45:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from fourwinds.com (fourwinds.com [63.64.179.162]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 636A793D06 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 03:45:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from darkstar.fourwinds.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fourwinds.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 009HjQVe507742 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 09:45:26 -0800 Received: from darkstar.fourwinds.com (jon@localhost) by darkstar.fourwinds.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 009HjQ3L507739 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2020 09:45:26 -0800 Message-Id: <202001091745.009HjQ3L507739@darkstar.fourwinds.com> From: Jon Steinhart To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-reply-to: References: <20200109012830.GC16808@mcvoy.com> <20200109020720.GG16808@mcvoy.com> <202001090423.0094NooZ379407@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <202001091721.009HLf2V503811@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Comments: In-reply-to Warner Losh message dated "Thu, 09 Jan 2020 10:30:07 -0700." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <507736.1578591926.1@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 09:45:26 -0800 X-JON-SPAM: local delivery Subject: Re: [TUHS] screen editors and beyond X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Warner Losh writes: > > I chose emacs because of muscle memory (Both the VAX and TOPS-20 machines > at school had emacs as the default editor) and also because it lets me > program better. I didn't let the fact it accomplished that by trying to be > an OS or LISP-M or whatever get in the way of using the best tool for the > job. In the 90s this meant that I had to be careful about the machines I > used it on. These days, it just doesn't matter. Mostly, though, it was > finger muscle memory :) > > Warner That's a great reason. I never did any bodybuilding with emacs so I have different muscle memory. There is another reason why I stayed away from emacs which is that I was running projects at the time - I had graduated from being an individual contributor. The multiple versions of emacs got in the way. We had too many instances where one person would ask another person for help or to review something, but people using different tools interfered with the ability of people to walk over to another terminal and get stuff done. Because of this, I made and enforced a rule that said that one could only use shell aliases if they didn't redefine any existing commands. It was important for people to be able to work together. Things were getting so flexible that it was as if everybody had their own custom power outlets at their desks preventing any other group member from coming over and plugging something in. Taking this in a different direction, one of the other rules that I enforced was "don't redefine the programming language." This is in my mind right now as I try to navigate the linux kernel. Someone obviously didn't like C and made a bunch of overly complicated constructs via macros to change it to something else generating bad code in the process. It reminded me of the first time that I ran across this, which was the Bourne shell in C redefined as Algol. I recently asked Steve about why he did this and he did give me an answer which he said I couldn't share until he refined it. He probably forgot over the holidays but since I think he's on this list maybe he'll weigh in. One amusing thing that Steve told me which I think I can share is why the symmetry of case-esac, if-fi was broken with with do-done; it was because the od command existed so do-od wouldn't work! Jon