From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 04aa7c74 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:44:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5F13C9BD4D; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:44:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24BEA9BD14; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:44:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E4D4B9BD14; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:44:32 +1000 (AEST) Received: from fourwinds.com (fourwinds.com [63.64.179.162]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6259B9BD0F for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2020 06:44:32 +1000 (AEST) Received: from darkstar.fourwinds.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fourwinds.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 00CKiVGO573282 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 12:44:31 -0800 Received: from darkstar.fourwinds.com (jon@localhost) by darkstar.fourwinds.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 00CKiUNV573279 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2020 12:44:30 -0800 Message-Id: <202001122044.00CKiUNV573279@darkstar.fourwinds.com> From: Jon Steinhart To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society In-reply-to: References: <202001121343.00CDhYHK132101@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <202001122034.00CKYQ39571239@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Comments: In-reply-to Kevin Bowling message dated "Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:40:53 -0700." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <573277.1578861870.1@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 12:44:30 -0800 X-JON-SPAM: local delivery Subject: Re: [TUHS] Tech Sq elevator (Was: screen editors) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Kevin Bowling writes: > I honestly can't tell if this is genius level snark :) in case you're > sincere we generally go to great lengths to build up data types and > structures (in C lingo) when programming only to tear those useful > attributes off often at inopportune times. Basically type > systems/type safety have been too expensive or too difficult to use > through history. > > Think of sitting at an SQL prompt as a counterpoint. You can pretty > easily get at the underlying representation and relationships of the > data and the output is just a side effect. Not saying SQL is the > ultimate answer, just that most people have a bit of experience with > it and UNIX so can mentally compare the two for themselves and see the > pros and cons to preserving the underlying representations. > > Regards, > Kevin > > On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 1:34 PM Jon Steinhart wrote: > > > > Kevin Bowling writes: > > > This is kind of illustrative of the '60s acid trip that perpetuates in > > > programming "Everything's a string maaaaan". The output is seen as > > > truth because the representation is for some reason too hard to get at > > > or too hard to cascade through the system. > > > > > > There's a total comedy of work going on in the unix way of a wc > > > pipeline versus calling a length function on a list. Nonetheless, the > > > unix pipeline was and is often magnitude easier for a single user to > > > get at. This kind of thing is amusing and endearing to me about our > > > profession in modern day. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Kevin > > > > Can you please elaborate? I read your post, and while I can see that it > > contains English words I can't make any sense out of what you said. > > > > Thanks, > > Jon I wasn't being snarky. You said "The output is seen as truth because the representation is for some reason too hard to get at or too hard to cascade through the system." I honestly have no idea what that means. Likewise, "There's a total comedy of work going on in the unix way of a wc pipeline versus calling a length function on a list." I just don't know what you mean. Jon