From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 795232c9 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:36:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 34E619D537; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 01:36:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F4A9D518; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 01:36:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D29499D518; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 01:36:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 741CA9CD7A for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 01:36:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id 2871A35E141; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 07:36:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 07:36:38 -0800 From: Larry McVoy To: arnold@skeeve.com Message-ID: <20200218153638.GB19116@mcvoy.com> References: <202002171520.01HFKqKi026749@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <4d252035b323b7583c5760c952d1982c@firemail.de> <202002171839.01HId8FT1358073@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <202002180017.01I0HI0I1415945@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <202002181528.01IFSogM030831@freefriends.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202002181528.01IFSogM030831@freefriends.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Subject: Re: [TUHS] man Macro Package and pdfmark X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 08:28:50AM -0700, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > Clem Cole wrote: > > > ditroff was always >>open source<< and any licensee could get it and see > > it. The problem you are suggesting is that it was not >>free<< i.e. FOSS. > > I don't like your use of "open source"; it is way out of skew with > how it's used today. > > > AT&T licensed it with a small set of fees. IIRC $1K for the first CPU, an > > $50 for each and redistribution license was $10K and $5/system. > > That was very painful for universities and/or small businesses. Sure > Sun and Masscomp could afford that. Your average computing center / > computer science department / startup would have to think twice or thrice. > > Per CPU licensing was particularly painful if you had a bunch > of workstations. Yeah, Clem sort of has a blind spot on licensing. It's weird because I agree with him on almost everything, it's sort of spooky how much we agree. My guess is that Clem was always at a University or a job where the fees were mouse nuts and so it appeared to him that things just worked. If you were a grad student like me, who wanted roff on a PC, it was very different. And I suspect Clem has always been seen as one of the chosen few who get logins on the machines with source. I was a nobody and had to fight hard to get a login, I got it, but not until I was a junior.