From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
To: Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] First appearance of named pipes
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2020 18:47:00 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200308024700.GE8730@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKzdPgyQE6idAQNJ4sarjOUL8nvAF7m9BgY6NCjep6_wZMpjzQ@mail.gmail.com>
I hear you but sockets are here to stay. Sun tried to get rid of them
by going to a STREAMS networking stack (not saying that was in any way
a better answer, just different). Didn't work, they had to put sockets
back, there was just way too much software written around the socket API.
I tried to make a more sane interface and never got to something that
handled all the edge cases.
Did Plan 9 make it sane? If so, care to say how or point me at something
like Masscomp's introduction to network programming?
On Sun, Mar 08, 2020 at 01:36:14PM +1100, Rob Pike wrote:
> Always bemused me that to get a named local I/O connection one ended
> up with "Unix domain (what does that even mean?) sockets" rather than
> named pipes, especially since sockets are about as natural a Unix
> concept as lawn mowers. I've been told, but haven't confirmed, that
> early sockets didn't even support read and write. They still don't
> support open and close, and never will.
>
> Networks are not intrinsically more special than any other I/O
> peripheral, but they have become gilded unicorns mounted on rotating
> hovercrafts compared to the I/O devices Unix supported before them.
>
> -rob
>
> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 3:48 AM Derek Fawcus
> <dfawcus+lists-tuhs@employees.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 07, 2020 at 01:17:09PM +0100, Paul Ruizendaal wrote:
> > >
> > > Interestingly, Luderer also refers to a 1978 paper by Steve Holmgren (one of the Arpa Unix authors), suggesting ???sockets??? (in today???s parlance) for interproces communication.
> >
> > Could that simply be bleed over of terminology from the ARPAnet / Internet
> > usage, in that "socket" is used to refer to protocol end points?
> >
> > i.e. see these from 1970:
> >
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc54
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc55
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc60
> >
> > DF
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-03-08 2:47 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-03-06 22:44 Noel Chiappa
2020-03-07 12:17 ` Paul Ruizendaal
2020-03-07 13:29 ` Clem Cole
2020-03-07 16:39 ` Derek Fawcus
2020-03-08 2:36 ` Rob Pike
2020-03-08 2:47 ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2020-03-08 13:07 ` Ralph Corderoy
2020-03-08 13:25 ` arnold
2020-03-08 3:06 ` Dave Horsfall
2020-03-08 7:16 ` arnold
2020-03-08 15:13 ` [TUHS] sockets (was Re: First appearance of named pipes) Derek Fawcus
2020-03-09 23:22 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2020-03-09 23:44 ` Larry McVoy
2020-03-23 8:49 ` Peter Pentchev
2020-03-24 9:47 ` Derek Fawcus
2020-03-25 23:25 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2020-03-25 23:47 ` Richard Salz
2020-03-26 0:11 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2020-03-26 0:18 ` Richard Salz
2020-03-26 1:08 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2020-03-26 2:38 ` Dave Horsfall
2020-03-26 3:08 ` Rob Pike
2020-03-26 3:43 ` George Michaelson
2020-03-26 4:11 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2020-03-28 11:12 ` Peter Pentchev
2020-03-28 11:14 ` Peter Pentchev
2020-03-28 16:03 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-03-26 1:20 ` Tony Finch
2020-03-27 10:51 ` Derek Fawcus
2020-03-09 23:22 ` [TUHS] First appearance of named pipes Grant Taylor via TUHS
2020-03-10 7:29 ` arnold
2020-03-11 2:47 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2020-03-11 7:02 ` arnold
2020-03-10 13:49 ` Chet Ramey
2020-03-10 20:26 ` Dave Horsfall
2020-03-10 20:37 ` Chet Ramey
2020-03-11 2:51 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-03-08 21:42 Paul Ruizendaal
2020-03-08 22:04 ` Jon Steinhart
2020-03-06 20:41 Paul Ruizendaal
2020-03-06 21:06 ` Clem Cole
2020-03-06 21:10 ` Clem Cole
2020-03-07 5:08 ` Heinz Lycklama
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