From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RDNS_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: (qmail 2392 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2020 10:33:24 -0000 Received-SPF: pass (minnie.tuhs.org: domain of minnie.tuhs.org designates 45.79.103.53 as permitted sender) receiver=inbox.vuxu.org; client-ip=45.79.103.53 envelope-from= Received: from unknown (HELO minnie.tuhs.org) (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTP; 23 Mar 2020 10:33:24 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CE50D9D72D; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 20:33:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD489D70C; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 20:32:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 857149D70C; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 20:32:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: from freefriends.org (freefriends.org [96.88.95.60]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7B1A9BD9B for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 20:32:36 +1000 (AEST) X-Envelope-From: arnold@skeeve.com Received: from freefriends.org (freefriends.org [96.88.95.60]) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 02NAWYN2022714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 23 Mar 2020 04:32:35 -0600 Received: (from arnold@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id 02NAWY4v022713; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 04:32:34 -0600 From: arnold@skeeve.com Message-Id: <202003231032.02NAWY4v022713@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: arnold set sender to arnold@skeeve.com using -f Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 04:32:34 -0600 To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org, egbegb2@gmail.com References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 7/5/10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] Question: stdio - Who invented and ... X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Ed Bradford wrote: > I've forgotten who created stdio, USG or the research group. Can any of the > youthful BTL folks of the 1970's refresh my mind. It was part of V7. I think DMR gets most of the credit. > Given that stdio was invented and, in my opinion at the time, a reasonable > and usable standard interface to IO on Unix, I am curious why no standard > for networking was developed or proposed and discussed. Sockets just > defined a new and very quirky IO interface for Unix based systems. > > Was any thought given to defining networking > using the > creat/open/read/write/close/mknod/link/unlink/chmod/chown > > model of IO in UNIX? Much of this has been discussed (to death) already on this list, and fairly recently, too. At that time networking was still a research topic. The Bell Labs folks worked on it, and this is visible in the streams stuff in V8/V9/V10 and early Plan 9, but by that time their work was less influential on the wider Unix community. There were efforts to integrate networking into the Unix file namespace, but it doesn't fit overly cleanly, and such things didn't spread. BSD networking adopted sockets from other, earlier efforts. IMHO less thought was given to "integration with Unix ideas" as opposed to just getting something working and usable, but that's just my opinion based on hindsight. BSD sockets spread because BSD was in the right place at the right time: it ran on the Vax, it also provided paging. Straight research Unix did not support the vax at the time, and people were looking to move to the 32 bit environment. All that plus csh with its interactive features (history, job control) and the vi screen editor (with ed inside it), made BSD (and thus its networking) very popular. Again, all of this is my 2 cents, and there's much more to be found in the list archives. HTH, Arnold