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From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
To: Dr Iain Maoileoin <iain@csp-partnership.co.uk>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>,
	Doug McIlroy <doug@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 K&R C
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 08:01:22 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200515150122.GF30160@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <D3259CA9-784C-4E37-888C-95D01E92ADB5@csp-partnership.co.uk>

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 08:55:46AM +0100, Dr Iain Maoileoin wrote:
> My question is:
> What is that line?  I dont understand it?  Effort input vs output?
> Complexity measure,  debugging complexity in a 3rd party program?

I think you are asking precisely the right question.  There is a line
where one side is good enough and good enough is just that.  The other
side is just too much, too much to get tangled up in.

I think Rob and Ken and the rest of the Go team are not lauded enough
for having the restraint to stay on the right side of the line.  It's
so easy to be seduced into yet another feature, "it's not that bad,
we can do it."  It is far harder to say "Nope, not gonna do that".

The Go team reminds me a bit of the original QNX team.  QNX was/is 
a message passing microkernel, it's the only microkernel that is
actually micro (in my experience, I hear that L4 is good but haven't
looked).  They had a core team of 3 people that were allowed to touch
the actual microkernel.  All of which fit into a 4K instruction cache
on x86.  Every commit went through the filter of "does this add to
the cache?"

That sort of discipline is really rare.  Far more common is "I benchmarked
it and it only slows down by 1%" - that's death by a thousand paper cuts.

  reply	other threads:[~2020-05-15 15:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 139+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-05-14 18:41 Doug McIlroy
2020-05-14 18:45 ` Richard Salz
2020-05-14 20:54 ` Clem Cole
2020-05-15  2:44 ` Rob Pike
2020-05-15  3:57   ` Rich Morin
2020-05-15  7:55   ` Dr Iain Maoileoin
2020-05-15 15:01     ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2020-05-15 15:36       ` John P. Linderman
2020-05-15 20:01         ` ron
2020-05-15 20:03           ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-15 20:05           ` Clem Cole
2020-05-15 20:18             ` ron
2020-05-15 20:24               ` Clem Cole
2020-05-16  0:57               ` Brantley Coile
2020-05-16 16:14                 ` Dan Cross
2020-05-15 20:56           ` Steve Nickolas
2020-05-16  0:31             ` Peter Jeremy
2020-05-16  8:30               ` Steve Nickolas
2020-05-16  0:43           ` John P. Linderman
2020-05-16 16:28             ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-16 17:39               ` Warner Losh
2020-05-19 19:45                 ` Peter Pentchev
2020-05-20  3:52                   ` Rich Morin
2020-05-21 15:06                     ` Dave Horsfall
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-05-19 12:29 Noel Chiappa
2020-05-19  2:29 Doug McIlroy
2020-05-19  3:20 ` Steve Nickolas
2020-05-18 14:33 Doug McIlroy
2020-05-18 13:58 Doug McIlroy
2020-05-16 18:45 Richard Tobin
2020-05-16 21:55 ` Ronald Natalie
2020-05-16  0:15 Nelson H. F. Beebe
2020-05-16  0:28 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-05-16  1:52 ` Warner Losh
2020-05-16 16:31   ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-16 20:35     ` Brad Spencer
2020-05-16 20:37       ` Warner Losh
2020-05-18 12:25     ` Tony Finch
2020-05-15 21:31 Richard Tobin
2020-05-15 21:53 ` Steve Nickolas
2020-05-15 22:33   ` ron
2020-05-15 23:34     ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-05-16  1:26       ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-16 21:59       ` Ronald Natalie
2020-05-16 23:26         ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-05-17 16:24           ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-17 16:29             ` ron
2020-05-17 16:38               ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-17 20:08                 ` Clem Cole
2020-05-18  8:46                   ` Peter Jeremy
2020-05-19  7:41                     ` Dave Horsfall
2020-05-18 12:04             ` Tony Finch
2020-05-18 13:10               ` Clem Cole
2020-05-18 15:13             ` Rich Morin
2020-05-18 15:51               ` Brantley Coile
2020-05-18 16:11             ` Dan Cross
2020-05-18 21:18               ` ron
2020-05-17 16:10 ` Derek Fawcus
2020-05-17 16:14   ` ron
2020-05-15 20:34 Doug McIlroy
2020-05-15 20:40 ` Warner Losh
     [not found] <mailman.1.1589421601.13778.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
2020-05-14  3:02 ` Paul McJones
2020-05-14 17:08   ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-14 17:58     ` Clem Cole
2020-04-27 17:45 Noel Chiappa
2020-04-27 17:56 ` Richard Salz
2020-04-27 18:02 ` Brantley Coile
2020-04-27 18:47 ` Derek Fawcus
2020-04-25 19:41 Noel Chiappa
2020-04-25 20:27 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-04-25 13:11 Noel Chiappa
2020-04-25 13:18 ` Rob Pike
2020-04-25 14:57   ` Warner Losh
2020-04-25 18:03   ` Noel Chiappa
2020-04-25 20:11     ` Michael Kjörling
2020-04-25 21:27       ` Brian L. Stuart
2020-04-26  0:07     ` emanuel stiebler
2020-04-26  0:54     ` Rob Pike
2020-04-26 19:37     ` Derek Fawcus
2020-04-26 20:10       ` Derek Fawcus
2020-04-26 21:59         ` Rich Morin
2020-04-26 22:38         ` Noel Hunt
2020-04-26 23:57         ` Nemo Nusquam
2020-04-27  3:38           ` Rob Pike
2020-04-25 13:35 ` Hellwig Geisse
2020-04-25 13:59   ` Richard Salz
2020-04-25 19:01   ` Brian L. Stuart
2020-04-25 20:07     ` Michael Kjörling
2020-04-25 21:34       ` Brian L. Stuart
2020-04-26  6:40     ` arnold
2020-04-25  1:59 Adam Thornton
2020-04-25  2:37 ` Charles Anthony
2020-04-25  2:47   ` Adam Thornton
2020-04-25  2:51     ` Rob Pike
2020-04-25  2:54       ` Rob Pike
2020-04-25  3:04         ` Larry McVoy
2020-04-25  3:30           ` Clem Cole
2020-04-25  3:43             ` Larry McVoy
2020-04-25  3:54               ` Jon Steinhart
2020-04-25 11:44                 ` Michael Kjörling
2020-04-25 13:17             ` Dan Cross
2020-05-11  0:28         ` scj
2020-05-11  0:32           ` Rob Pike
2020-05-11  0:57             ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-11 17:32               ` Greg A. Woods
2020-05-11 18:25                 ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-11 18:37                   ` Clem Cole
2020-05-11 19:12                     ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-11 19:57                       ` joe mcguckin
2020-05-11 20:25                         ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-12 17:23                           ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-12 17:35                             ` ron
2020-05-12 17:42                               ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-12 18:36                               ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-13 23:36                             ` Dave Horsfall
2020-05-14  0:42                               ` John P. Linderman
2020-05-14  2:44                                 ` Rich Morin
2020-05-14  3:09                                   ` Charles Anthony
2020-05-14 12:27                                     ` ron
2020-05-14 12:27                                     ` ron
2020-05-14 12:27                                     ` ron
2020-05-14  7:38                                   ` Dave Horsfall
2020-05-14 12:25                                     ` ron
2020-05-14 17:13                                   ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-14 17:21                                 ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-17 16:34                                   ` Derek Fawcus
2020-05-14  4:21                               ` Greg A. Woods
2020-05-14  4:40                                 ` Warner Losh
2020-05-14 17:32                               ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-14 22:32                                 ` Tony Finch
2020-05-16 23:53                                   ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-05-17  0:35                                     ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-11 18:37                   ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-11  2:08           ` Lawrence Stewart
2020-05-11 11:36           ` Michael Kjörling
2020-04-25  3:37       ` Dave Horsfall
2020-04-27 13:19       ` Tony Finch
2020-04-25  2:50   ` Adam Thornton
2020-04-25  5:59     ` Lars Brinkhoff

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