From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23705 invoked from network); 21 May 2020 18:32:16 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 May 2020 18:32:16 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9806F9C914; Fri, 22 May 2020 04:32:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256009C6FC; Fri, 22 May 2020 04:31:35 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=threedee.com header.i=@threedee.com header.b="Ry/LGTip"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 574EE9C6FC; Fri, 22 May 2020 04:31:33 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 3842 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Fri, 22 May 2020 04:31:33 AEST Received: from uniform.gendns.com (uniform.gendns.com [198.105.219.4]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09D5F9C6C8 for ; Fri, 22 May 2020 04:31:33 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=threedee.com; s=default; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:In-Reply-To :Subject:From:To:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Message-ID:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding :Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=e7FhpU6REpCz9DuAkQW02UiO91tL29UNQwqA1RtFSM8=; b=Ry/LGTipVKHs1YQbpTcqXFKY+m zefF9MPlEtgUqEST6jyt79UeJOiDPPaNrUcCNp55HcSKVexqsW3o/AiViZyjXFlviBRGGMrMxNp71 Cycp3fm/PG6o9gKOQzl6sA8wCWvj/kEC6MVHfjTP6+R2Wwp/SzCSwB99n6O1rRaKCX4zFe8H7hV8w Z7H8Oln8tJRD4KQY4zYiklIvVZRa6cFixZEj2pC5HWKjmfrSatoHm3E8dFY4L/GcJkwNXvhGVWEkJ JLJi9KJtSttY2nEIgeH9tlSme1cUK3fiPEoWSjZVWlruvNgPPhvb+YMsCx+rVR6wDxfUEXX4NsesM Dka6ow1A==; Received: from 024-159-239-218.biz.spectrum.com ([24.159.239.218]:53999 helo=ALBA.threedee.com) by uniform.gendns.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jboyY-0091Je-Tg for tuhs@tuhs.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 13:27:29 -0400 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 12:22:17 -0500 To: From: John Foust In-Reply-To: <20200521163042.GQ12554@mcvoy.com> References: <8a2e9b1b-8890-a783-5b53-c8480c070f2e@telegraphics.com.au> <20200521163042.GQ12554@mcvoy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=5.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - uniform.gendns.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - tuhs.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - threedee.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: uniform.gendns.com: authenticated_id: jfoust@threedee.com X-Authenticated-Sender: uniform.gendns.com: jfoust@threedee.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-Id: <20200521183133.574EE9C6FC@minnie.tuhs.org> Subject: Re: [TUHS] History of popularity of C X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" At 11:30 AM 5/21/2020, Larry McVoy wrote: >This matches my memory as well. I think I learned C in 1983 or 84, >it just worked. To me it felt like it was PDP-11 assembler only nicer. One thing that stuck with me about our experience at UW-Madison at that time was that there wasn't a course that taught C yet some courses were taught in C. "Here's K&R, there's the Unix manuals, get to it." >When gcc finally got good enough, I agree, around >1990 or so, it was a relief. You just used it and ignored the platform >specific ones. G++ took a long time to be good enough. There's the broader history of the languages that were popular in the IBM PC market in the 80s and 90s, too. In that at least numerically larger market, there were times when C was not on top for many small-time developers. Let's not forget Turbo Pascal (shipped 1983 to 1995) and Turbo C and C++ (1987-1995). In 1986 or so on the PC, I was using the Gimpel C-terp interpreted C and their fine PC-lint to speed development (which Clem Cole has mentioned here before and which is still sold (!) ) in conjunction with shipping code under the Lattice and Microsoft C compilers of that time. In the mid- to late 80s, there's the rise of the flat address space 68000 machines like Amiga and Atari which could enjoy the cross-pollination of code ported from Unix C environments. On the Mac, Apple's MacApp environment was their Object Pascal and not C++ until 1991. Think C came out in 1986. In the late 1980s, 32-bit DOS extenders arose that let you write DOS programs in C that had true 32-bit pointers and didn't need to worry about 64K segments as much, followed by Microsoft's Win32s in late 1992 that allowed that freedom under Windows 3.1. - John