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From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
To: Toby Thain <toby@telegraphics.com.au>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>, jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: [TUHS] History of popularity of C
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 12:35:29 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200522193529.GI3357@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <866f9bf3-278a-f4cd-dc00-49ccc4defb1f@telegraphics.com.au>

On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 03:01:40PM -0400, Toby Thain wrote:
> On 2020-05-22 2:40 PM, John Gilmore wrote:
> > Tyler Adams <coppero1237@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Doesn't C++ also generate tight code and is fairly close to the metal?
> >> Today C++ is the high performant language for game developers and HFT shops.
> >>
> >> But, I never found it on any of these embedded systems, it was straight C.
> > 
> > My take on this is that programmers who understand the underlying
> > hardware architecture can easily intuit the code that would result from
> > what they write in C.  There are only a few late features (e.g. struct
> 
> A short time playing with Godbolt should challenge that view :)
> 
> https://godbolt.org/
> 
> 
> > parameters, longjmp) that require complex code to be generated, or
> > function calls to occur where no function call was written by the
> > programmer.

What John didn't mention, he just assumes people know and everyone is
the same, is that he is an excellent C programmer, I could fix bugs
in his code.

You can always fine someone who will make a mess of any language.
That's not the point.  

Assume that you have decent programmers, you will be able to understand
and fix their C code.  If you have really good C programmers, like
my company did, you can start to predict what the bottom half of the
function looks like by reading the top half.  We wrote very stylized C,
were not afraid of gotos when used wisely.

  reply	other threads:[~2020-05-22 19:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 106+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-05-21 18:28 Noel Chiappa
2020-05-21 18:44 ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-05-21 19:06   ` Paul Winalski
2020-05-21 20:27     ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-05-22  8:52 ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS
2020-05-22  9:51   ` Tyler Adams
2020-05-22 11:09     ` arnold
2020-05-22 11:15       ` Tyler Adams
2020-05-22 18:40         ` John Gilmore
2020-05-22 19:01           ` Toby Thain
2020-05-22 19:35             ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2020-05-22 19:31           ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-22 20:19           ` Michael Kjörling
2020-05-22 14:59       ` Toby Thain
2020-05-22 20:39       ` [TUHS] History of popularity of C (GCC/Cygnus) John Gilmore
2020-05-23  4:33         ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-05-22 11:58     ` [TUHS] History of popularity of C A. P. Garcia
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-06-06 21:49 Doug McIlroy
2020-06-06 21:55 ` Warner Losh
2020-06-08 13:56 ` Derek Fawcus
2020-06-08 15:20   ` Richard Salz
2020-06-08 15:30 ` Dan Cross
2020-06-08 16:32 ` Tony Finch
2020-05-21 15:27 Tyler Adams
2020-05-21 16:10 ` Toby Thain
2020-05-21 16:30   ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-21 17:22     ` John Foust
2020-05-21 20:17       ` Toby Thain
2020-05-21 16:43   ` Tony Finch
2020-05-21 17:35     ` arnold
2020-05-21 19:16       ` CHARLES KESTER
2020-05-21 20:33         ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-05-21 20:09       ` Toby Thain
2020-05-21 20:12       ` Tony Finch
2020-05-22  8:28       ` David Arnold
2020-05-21 20:07     ` Toby Thain
2020-05-21 20:56   ` Clem Cole
2020-05-21 23:45     ` Toby Thain
2020-05-21 23:57       ` Richard Salz
2020-05-22  0:17         ` Toby Thain
2020-05-22  4:10         ` John Gilmore
2020-05-22 14:11           ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-22 14:34             ` Richard Salz
2020-05-22 14:17           ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-22  7:42         ` arnold
2020-05-22 23:50   ` Greg A. Woods
2020-05-23  7:28     ` Andy Kosela
2020-05-23 17:08     ` Clem Cole
2020-05-23 17:22       ` Richard Salz
2020-05-23 18:42       ` Derek Fawcus
2020-05-23 19:28       ` Michael Kjörling
2020-05-26  4:21       ` Dave Horsfall
2020-05-26  4:32         ` Ed Carp
2020-05-26  8:21           ` Rob Pike
2020-05-26 14:44             ` Clem Cole
2020-05-26 14:32         ` Clem Cole
2020-05-26 19:50           ` Greg A. Woods
2020-05-26 21:48             ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-05-26 22:36               ` Greg A. Woods
2020-05-27 14:37                 ` Ronald Natalie
2020-05-27 15:09                   ` Clem Cole
2020-05-27 16:11                   ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-05-27 19:49                     ` Greg A. Woods
2020-05-27 20:13                       ` Larry McVoy
2020-05-27 20:23                         ` Richard Salz
2020-05-27 21:00                       ` Nevin Liber
2020-05-27 23:17                         ` Greg A. Woods
2020-06-05 20:57                           ` Dave Horsfall
2020-06-05 21:40                             ` Nemo Nusquam
2020-06-05 21:47                             ` Richard Salz
2020-06-05 22:01                               ` Bakul Shah
2020-06-06 20:49                   ` Ed Carp
2020-06-06 21:08                     ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-06-06 21:13                       ` Larry McVoy
2020-06-06 22:27                       ` Ed Carp
2020-06-06 23:14                         ` Tyler Adams
2020-06-07  5:57                         ` arnold
2020-06-07  9:22                           ` Andy Kosela
2020-06-07  9:39                             ` Ed Carp
2020-06-07 10:02                             ` Brantley Coile
2020-06-07 11:30                             ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-06-07 15:26                             ` Clem Cole
2020-06-07 15:52                               ` Larry McVoy
2020-06-08  1:02                                 ` Adam Thornton
2020-06-08  8:04                                   ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-06-07 17:26                               ` Bakul Shah
2020-06-07 17:35                               ` Bakul Shah
2020-06-07 18:50                               ` Nemo Nusquam
2020-06-07 21:15                                 ` Chris Torek
2020-06-07 22:16                                   ` Dan Cross
2020-06-07 22:56                                     ` Chris Torek
2020-06-08  0:24                                       ` Bram Wyllie
2020-06-08  5:48                                   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2020-06-06 23:31                     ` Bakul Shah
2020-06-07  0:12                       ` Greg A. Woods
2020-06-07 11:04                     ` emanuel stiebler
2020-06-07 11:33                       ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-05-26 15:19         ` Toby Thain
2020-05-26 16:00         ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-05-26 16:21           ` Christopher Browne
2020-05-26 19:29             ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-05-26 19:55             ` Dan Cross
2020-05-26 20:00               ` Jon Steinhart
2020-05-21 16:18 ` Jim Capp
2020-05-21 18:58 ` A. P. Garcia
2020-05-21 19:02 ` Clem Cole

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