From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 19194 invoked from network); 22 May 2020 19:36:16 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 May 2020 19:36:16 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 538AD9C90F; Sat, 23 May 2020 05:36:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94E69C5E5; Sat, 23 May 2020 05:35:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5F7509C5E5; Sat, 23 May 2020 05:35:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB0339C194 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 05:35:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id 6906235E140; Fri, 22 May 2020 12:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 12:35:29 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Toby Thain Message-ID: <20200522193529.GI3357@mcvoy.com> References: <20200521182817.08C0318C093@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <202005221109.04MB92D3016090@freefriends.org> <22671.1590172811@hop.toad.com> <866f9bf3-278a-f4cd-dc00-49ccc4defb1f@telegraphics.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <866f9bf3-278a-f4cd-dc00-49ccc4defb1f@telegraphics.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Subject: Re: [TUHS] History of popularity of C X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society , jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 03:01:40PM -0400, Toby Thain wrote: > On 2020-05-22 2:40 PM, John Gilmore wrote: > > Tyler Adams wrote: > >> Doesn't C++ also generate tight code and is fairly close to the metal? > >> Today C++ is the high performant language for game developers and HFT shops. > >> > >> But, I never found it on any of these embedded systems, it was straight C. > > > > My take on this is that programmers who understand the underlying > > hardware architecture can easily intuit the code that would result from > > what they write in C. There are only a few late features (e.g. struct > > A short time playing with Godbolt should challenge that view :) > > https://godbolt.org/ > > > > parameters, longjmp) that require complex code to be generated, or > > function calls to occur where no function call was written by the > > programmer. What John didn't mention, he just assumes people know and everyone is the same, is that he is an excellent C programmer, I could fix bugs in his code. You can always fine someone who will make a mess of any language. That's not the point. Assume that you have decent programmers, you will be able to understand and fix their C code. If you have really good C programmers, like my company did, you can start to predict what the bottom half of the function looks like by reading the top half. We wrote very stylized C, were not afraid of gotos when used wisely.