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* [TUHS] Style command source available?
@ 2020-08-20 14:09 Richard Salz
  2020-08-20 14:45 ` Jim Geist
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Richard Salz @ 2020-08-20 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Is the style command (and perhaps other DWB programs) legally available
anywhere?

Replies to me will be summarized for the list. :)

tnx.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 14:09 [TUHS] Style command source available? Richard Salz
@ 2020-08-20 14:45 ` Jim Geist
  2020-08-20 15:14   ` Clem Cole
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Jim Geist @ 2020-08-20 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Salz; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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I was recently looking at the C compiler in v10 in the TUHS archives and I
believe it's in there.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 10:11 AM Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is the style command (and perhaps other DWB programs) legally available
> anywhere?
>
> Replies to me will be summarized for the list. :)
>
> tnx.
>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 14:45 ` Jim Geist
@ 2020-08-20 15:14   ` Clem Cole
  2020-08-20 15:44     ` Steve Nickolas
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2020-08-20 15:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jim Geist; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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The DWB distribution from the Toolkit is not around to my knowledge, but:
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V8/usr/src/cmd look for the
diction and style directories, which should be close.

Note to Warren, probably should create and area for the Toolkit codes and
see if we can start to collect them, such as a few versions of ksh, DWB,
different games for the JERQ, *et al.*   I wish I had a list of everything
that was in it, but if we all go looking we might be able to pull much of
that material together.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 10:45 AM Jim Geist <velocityboy@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was recently looking at the C compiler in v10 in the TUHS archives and I
> believe it's in there.
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 10:11 AM Richard Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is the style command (and perhaps other DWB programs) legally available
>> anywhere?
>>
>> Replies to me will be summarized for the list. :)
>>
>> tnx.
>>
>>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 15:14   ` Clem Cole
@ 2020-08-20 15:44     ` Steve Nickolas
  2020-08-20 16:08       ` John Cowan
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Steve Nickolas @ 2020-08-20 15:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Thu, 20 Aug 2020, Clem Cole wrote:

> Note to Warren, probably should create and area for the Toolkit codes and
> see if we can start to collect them, such as a few versions of ksh, DWB,
> different games for the JERQ, *et al.*   I wish I had a list of everything
> that was in it, but if we all go looking we might be able to pull much of
> that material together.

Funny you mention ksh since I've been trying to kitbash ksh93 into being 
able to compile with make instead of the funky build system it currently 
uses, without a lot of luck.

-uso.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 15:44     ` Steve Nickolas
@ 2020-08-20 16:08       ` John Cowan
  2020-08-20 16:30         ` Steve Nickolas
  2020-08-20 19:42         ` Chet Ramey
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: John Cowan @ 2020-08-20 16:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Steve Nickolas; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:55 AM Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:


> Funny you mention ksh since I've been trying to kitbash ksh93 into being
> able to compile with make instead of the funky build system it currently
> uses, without a lot of luck.
>

IIRC, Korn used make when developing ksh, but then shipped it with a
/bin/sh script because it was more portable than make was in those days
(and still is; there are tools that warn you to use gmake on BSD).  After
all, a build process (unless it is interrupted) just needs to build, it
doesn't need to keep track of what has already been built.

That said, I have no idea what the state of the build process is now.



America is not a morally pure country. No country ever has been or ever
will be, but in democratic countries you get things done by compromising
your principles in order to form alliances with groups about whom you
have grave doubts.  --Richard Rorty, Achieving Our Country (1998)

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 16:08       ` John Cowan
@ 2020-08-20 16:30         ` Steve Nickolas
  2020-08-20 16:48           ` John Cowan
  2020-08-20 19:42         ` Chet Ramey
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Steve Nickolas @ 2020-08-20 16:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Cowan; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Thu, 20 Aug 2020, John Cowan wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:55 AM Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
>
>> Funny you mention ksh since I've been trying to kitbash ksh93 into being
>> able to compile with make instead of the funky build system it currently
>> uses, without a lot of luck.
>
> IIRC, Korn used make when developing ksh, but then shipped it with a
> /bin/sh script because it was more portable than make was in those days
> (and still is; there are tools that warn you to use gmake on BSD).  After
> all, a build process (unless it is interrupted) just needs to build, it
> doesn't need to keep track of what has already been built.
>
> That said, I have no idea what the state of the build process is now.

It's still a shell script.  Big huge shell script.

I was trying to simplify the build process because I'm trying to coax ksh 
to build with a nonstandard cc/libc combination as part of an attempt to 
make Linux more like "real" (read: commercial/historic) Unices.  They're 
pretty compatible with gcc and glibc, but they're not gcc and glibc.

-uso.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 16:30         ` Steve Nickolas
@ 2020-08-20 16:48           ` John Cowan
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: John Cowan @ 2020-08-20 16:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Steve Nickolas; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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That suggests to me like factoring the script would be the first place to
start.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:30 PM Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Aug 2020, John Cowan wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:55 AM Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Funny you mention ksh since I've been trying to kitbash ksh93 into being
> >> able to compile with make instead of the funky build system it currently
> >> uses, without a lot of luck.
> >
> > IIRC, Korn used make when developing ksh, but then shipped it with a
> > /bin/sh script because it was more portable than make was in those days
> > (and still is; there are tools that warn you to use gmake on BSD).  After
> > all, a build process (unless it is interrupted) just needs to build, it
> > doesn't need to keep track of what has already been built.
> >
> > That said, I have no idea what the state of the build process is now.
>
> It's still a shell script.  Big huge shell script.
>
> I was trying to simplify the build process because I'm trying to coax ksh
> to build with a nonstandard cc/libc combination as part of an attempt to
> make Linux more like "real" (read: commercial/historic) Unices.  They're
> pretty compatible with gcc and glibc, but they're not gcc and glibc.
>
> -uso.
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 16:08       ` John Cowan
  2020-08-20 16:30         ` Steve Nickolas
@ 2020-08-20 19:42         ` Chet Ramey
  2020-08-20 23:15           ` John Cowan
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Chet Ramey @ 2020-08-20 19:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Cowan, Steve Nickolas; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On 8/20/20 12:08 PM, John Cowan wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:55 AM Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co
> <mailto:usotsuki@buric.co>> wrote:
>  
> 
>     Funny you mention ksh since I've been trying to kitbash ksh93 into being
>     able to compile with make instead of the funky build system it currently
>     uses, without a lot of luck.
> 
> 
> IIRC, Korn used make when developing ksh, but then shipped it with a
> /bin/sh script because it was more portable than make was in those days
> (and still is; there are tools that warn you to use gmake on BSD).  After
> all, a build process (unless it is interrupted) just needs to build, it
> doesn't need to keep track of what has already been built.

He might have started with make for ksh83 and 86, but switched to Fowler's
nmake and then shipped that /bin/sh script in ksh88 for people (everyone,
basically) who didn't have nmake.

> That said, I have no idea what the state of the build process is now.

Changing that was one of the controversial modifications made to ksh93 in
ksh-2020. It's pretty complex.

Here's a paper that describes part of it:

https://www.usenix.org/legacy/publications/library/proceedings/vhll/full_papers/fowler.feature.ps

-- 
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
		 ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU    chet@case.edu    http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 19:42         ` Chet Ramey
@ 2020-08-20 23:15           ` John Cowan
  2020-08-20 23:17             ` Chet Ramey
                               ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: John Cowan @ 2020-08-20 23:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: chet.ramey; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Unfortunately Ghostscript can't convert that .ps file to a PDF.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:42 PM Chet Ramey <chet.ramey@case.edu> wrote:

> On 8/20/20 12:08 PM, John Cowan wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:55 AM Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co
> > <mailto:usotsuki@buric.co>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     Funny you mention ksh since I've been trying to kitbash ksh93 into
> being
> >     able to compile with make instead of the funky build system it
> currently
> >     uses, without a lot of luck.
> >
> >
> > IIRC, Korn used make when developing ksh, but then shipped it with a
> > /bin/sh script because it was more portable than make was in those days
> > (and still is; there are tools that warn you to use gmake on BSD).  After
> > all, a build process (unless it is interrupted) just needs to build, it
> > doesn't need to keep track of what has already been built.
>
> He might have started with make for ksh83 and 86, but switched to Fowler's
> nmake and then shipped that /bin/sh script in ksh88 for people (everyone,
> basically) who didn't have nmake.
>
> > That said, I have no idea what the state of the build process is now.
>
> Changing that was one of the controversial modifications made to ksh93 in
> ksh-2020. It's pretty complex.
>
> Here's a paper that describes part of it:
>
>
> https://www.usenix.org/legacy/publications/library/proceedings/vhll/full_papers/fowler.feature.ps
>
> --
> ``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
>                  ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
> Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU    chet@case.edu    http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 23:15           ` John Cowan
@ 2020-08-20 23:17             ` Chet Ramey
  2020-08-20 23:20             ` Jim Capp
  2020-08-21  9:21             ` Harald Arnesen
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Chet Ramey @ 2020-08-20 23:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Cowan; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On 8/20/20 7:15 PM, John Cowan wrote:
> Unfortunately Ghostscript can't convert that .ps file to a PDF.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/John_Snyder16/publication/261861597_Feature-based_portability/links/595657170f7e9bed45f67c53/Feature-based-portability.pdf

See if that works better.

-- 
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
		 ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU    chet@case.edu    http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 23:15           ` John Cowan
  2020-08-20 23:17             ` Chet Ramey
@ 2020-08-20 23:20             ` Jim Capp
  2020-08-21  9:21             ` Harald Arnesen
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Jim Capp @ 2020-08-20 23:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Cowan; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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There is an email header in the file. If you edit it and remove everything before the %!PS-Adobe-2.0 preamble, it will load with gs and converts perfectly to pdf with ps2pdf. 




From: "John Cowan" <cowan@ccil.org> 
To: "chet ramey" <chet.ramey@case.edu> 
Cc: "The Eunuchs Hysterical Society" <tuhs@tuhs.org> 
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 7:15:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Style command source available? 


Unfortunately Ghostscript can't convert that .ps file to a PDF. 


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 3:42 PM Chet Ramey < chet.ramey@case.edu > wrote: 


On 8/20/20 12:08 PM, John Cowan wrote: 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 11:55 AM Steve Nickolas < usotsuki@buric.co 
> <mailto: usotsuki@buric.co >> wrote: 
> 
> 
> Funny you mention ksh since I've been trying to kitbash ksh93 into being 
> able to compile with make instead of the funky build system it currently 
> uses, without a lot of luck. 
> 
> 
> IIRC, Korn used make when developing ksh, but then shipped it with a 
> /bin/sh script because it was more portable than make was in those days 
> (and still is; there are tools that warn you to use gmake on BSD). After 
> all, a build process (unless it is interrupted) just needs to build, it 
> doesn't need to keep track of what has already been built. 

He might have started with make for ksh83 and 86, but switched to Fowler's 
nmake and then shipped that /bin/sh script in ksh88 for people (everyone, 
basically) who didn't have nmake. 

> That said, I have no idea what the state of the build process is now. 

Changing that was one of the controversial modifications made to ksh93 in 
ksh-2020. It's pretty complex. 

Here's a paper that describes part of it: 

https://www.usenix.org/legacy/publications/library/proceedings/vhll/full_papers/fowler.feature.ps 

-- 
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer 
``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates 
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU chet@case.edu http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/ 

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-20 23:15           ` John Cowan
  2020-08-20 23:17             ` Chet Ramey
  2020-08-20 23:20             ` Jim Capp
@ 2020-08-21  9:21             ` Harald Arnesen
  2020-08-21 14:42               ` John Cowan
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Harald Arnesen @ 2020-08-21  9:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

John Cowan [21.08.2020 01:15]:

> ``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
>                  ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates

Of course, what Hippokrates really wrote was
"Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή"
-- 
Hilsen Harald

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-21  9:21             ` Harald Arnesen
@ 2020-08-21 14:42               ` John Cowan
  2020-08-21 15:17                 ` Steve Nickolas
  2020-08-21 15:23                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: John Cowan @ 2020-08-21 14:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Harald Arnesen; +Cc: TUHS main list

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On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 5:22 AM Harald Arnesen <skogtun@gmail.com> wrote:


> >                  ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
>
> Of course, what Hippokrates really wrote was
> "Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή"
>

Naturally.  But for hysterical raisins I stick to ASCII in my .sigs, and
anyway, the Latin version allows me to say "Arse longa, vita brevis" when
appropriate.

What Hippocrates definitely didn't say was "First, do no harm", though it
is close to something in the Epidemics which I have refrained from looking
up.




John Cowan          http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan        cowan@ccil.org
No,  John.  I want formats that are actually useful, rather than over-
featured megaliths that address all questions by piling on ridiculous
internal links in forms which are hideously over-complex.
        --Simon St. Laurent on xml-dev

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-21 14:42               ` John Cowan
@ 2020-08-21 15:17                 ` Steve Nickolas
  2020-08-21 15:23                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Steve Nickolas @ 2020-08-21 15:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Cowan; +Cc: TUHS main list

On Fri, 21 Aug 2020, John Cowan wrote:

> What Hippocrates definitely didn't say was "First, do no harm", though it
> is close to something in the Epidemics which I have refrained from looking
> up.

Sounds more like John Wesley, actually.

-uso.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

* Re: [TUHS] Style command source available?
  2020-08-21 14:42               ` John Cowan
  2020-08-21 15:17                 ` Steve Nickolas
@ 2020-08-21 15:23                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Nurpmeso @ 2020-08-21 15:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Cowan; +Cc: TUHS main list

John Cowan wrote in
 <CAD2gp_RQXUwqj9qFHHzbxgsfgKuSrejLXBWW0KJcJCO=Xkz=xw@mail.gmail.com>:
 |On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 5:22 AM Harald Arnesen <skogtun@gmail.com> wrote:
 |>>                  ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
 |>
 |> Of course, what Hippokrates really wrote was
 |> "Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή"
 |
 |Naturally.  But for hysterical raisins I stick to ASCII in my .sigs, and
 |anyway, the Latin version allows me to say "Arse longa, vita brevis" when
 |appropriate.
 |
 |What Hippocrates definitely didn't say was "First, do no harm", though it
 |is close to something in the Epidemics which I have refrained from looking
 |up.

It was Schopenhauer who definetely said

  Neminem laede, imo omnes, quantum potes, juva!

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-08-21 15:30 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-08-20 14:09 [TUHS] Style command source available? Richard Salz
2020-08-20 14:45 ` Jim Geist
2020-08-20 15:14   ` Clem Cole
2020-08-20 15:44     ` Steve Nickolas
2020-08-20 16:08       ` John Cowan
2020-08-20 16:30         ` Steve Nickolas
2020-08-20 16:48           ` John Cowan
2020-08-20 19:42         ` Chet Ramey
2020-08-20 23:15           ` John Cowan
2020-08-20 23:17             ` Chet Ramey
2020-08-20 23:20             ` Jim Capp
2020-08-21  9:21             ` Harald Arnesen
2020-08-21 14:42               ` John Cowan
2020-08-21 15:17                 ` Steve Nickolas
2020-08-21 15:23                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso

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