[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 958 bytes --] Warner Losh and I have been discussing the early history of John Lions' "A commentary on the Sixth Edition UNIX Operating System". I've been hosting Warren Toomey's version (with some correction of scan errors) at http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/ for some years now, and my understanding had been that the book hadn't been published, just photocopied, until Warren posted it on alt.folklore.computers in 1994. But now it seems that the "book" had been published by UNSW when Lions held the course, and only later was the license revoked. Does anybody have any insights? What restrictions were there on its distribution? What was the format? Was it a real book, or just bound notes? Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 163 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1066 bytes --] On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:16 PM Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote: > Warner Losh and I have been discussing the early history of John > Lions' "A commentary on the Sixth Edition UNIX Operating System". > I've been hosting Warren Toomey's version (with some correction of > scan errors) at http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/ for > some years now, and my understanding had been that the book hadn't > been published, just photocopied, until Warren posted it on > alt.folklore.computers in 1994. But now it seems that the "book" had > been published by UNSW when Lions held the course, and only later was > the license revoked. Does anybody have any insights? What > restrictions were there on its distribution? What was the format? > Was it a real book, or just bound notes? > The pictures I've seen online are of a bound book, but lack photos of what's inside. It contained a legend in the front saying you needed a 6th edition license from AT&T to receive a copy. Beyond that, I'd love to hear what others know about this detail. Warner [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1606 bytes --]
i was a TA for the course which used this as a textbook.
my memory is little faded on this (it was on the other side of my stroke),
but i believe they were perfect bound (cloth strip and glue) and had
two different colors for the covers (i want to say orange and red).
they might have been just stapled but they were thick enough that staples
might have been insufficient.
i certainly remember john printing them off on the DEC printer.
as for the permissions, i can’t recall anything at the time (this was about 45 years ago),
but do remember the fuss at the Labs when Bell Labs started printing their own
high security copies just a couple of years later.
andrew hume
> On Nov 1, 2020, at 9:07 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
>
> Warner Losh and I have been discussing the early history of John
> Lions' "A commentary on the Sixth Edition UNIX Operating System".
> I've been hosting Warren Toomey's version (with some correction of
> scan errors) at http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/ for
> some years now, and my understanding had been that the book hadn't
> been published, just photocopied, until Warren posted it on
> alt.folklore.computers in 1994. But now it seems that the "book" had
> been published by UNSW when Lions held the course, and only later was
> the license revoked. Does anybody have any insights? What
> restrictions were there on its distribution? What was the format?
> Was it a real book, or just bound notes?
>
> Greg
> --
> Sent from my desktop computer.
> Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program
> reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2315 bytes --] The UNSW Library Appears to have a copy in their storage, accessible by special request. It has a copyright date of “c1977” so it’s not the later “properly” published edition. https://primoa.library.unsw.edu.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?vid=UNSWS&docid=UNSW_ALMA21116225050001731&query=any,contains,John%20lions&_ga=2.60871272.51366765.1604303632-102727300.1604303632 d > On 2 Nov 2020, at 18:44, Andrew Hume <andrew@humeweb.com> wrote: > > i was a TA for the course which used this as a textbook. > my memory is little faded on this (it was on the other side of my stroke), > but i believe they were perfect bound (cloth strip and glue) and had > two different colors for the covers (i want to say orange and red). > they might have been just stapled but they were thick enough that staples > might have been insufficient. > > i certainly remember john printing them off on the DEC printer. > > as for the permissions, i can’t recall anything at the time (this was about 45 years ago), > but do remember the fuss at the Labs when Bell Labs started printing their own > high security copies just a couple of years later. > > andrew hume > >> On Nov 1, 2020, at 9:07 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote: >> >> Warner Losh and I have been discussing the early history of John >> Lions' "A commentary on the Sixth Edition UNIX Operating System". >> I've been hosting Warren Toomey's version (with some correction of >> scan errors) at http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/ for >> some years now, and my understanding had been that the book hadn't >> been published, just photocopied, until Warren posted it on >> alt.folklore.computers in 1994. But now it seems that the "book" had >> been published by UNSW when Lions held the course, and only later was >> the license revoked. Does anybody have any insights? What >> restrictions were there on its distribution? What was the format? >> Was it a real book, or just bound notes? >> >> Greg >> -- >> Sent from my desktop computer. >> Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key. >> See complete headers for address and phone numbers. >> This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program >> reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4199 bytes --]
On Sun, Nov 01, 2020 at 10:21:23PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > The pictures I've seen online are of a bound book, but lack photos of > what's inside. It contained a legend in the front saying you needed a > 6th edition license from AT&T to receive a copy. Beyond that, I'd love > to hear what others know about this detail. I have my copies here, and have just taken some photos: https://minnie.tuhs.org/wktcloud/index.php/s/2io7tpmTyn8WWeP 29.7cm by 21.0cm by about 7mm thick, each. They seem to be photocopied sheets, stapled on the left, with coloured front and back pages, with a brown cloth binding glued over the left-hand edge. One is magenta, the other is dull orange. My photos make the orange one brighter than it actually is, sorry it's artifical light (night-time) here. Cheers, Warren
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1522 bytes --] I had the orange and red books but I sold them to a fellow in Europe who has a Unix Museum. He also bought one of UNIX lice eggs plates. I took high resolution photos of each page before I sent them to Europe. I can send copies if that is legal and anyone is interested. Ed Bradford Pflugerville, TX Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 1, 2020, at 11:22 PM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > > > > >> On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:16 PM Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote: >> Warner Losh and I have been discussing the early history of John >> Lions' "A commentary on the Sixth Edition UNIX Operating System". >> I've been hosting Warren Toomey's version (with some correction of >> scan errors) at http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/ for >> some years now, and my understanding had been that the book hadn't >> been published, just photocopied, until Warren posted it on >> alt.folklore.computers in 1994. But now it seems that the "book" had >> been published by UNSW when Lions held the course, and only later was >> the license revoked. Does anybody have any insights? What >> restrictions were there on its distribution? What was the format? >> Was it a real book, or just bound notes? > > The pictures I've seen online are of a bound book, but lack photos of what's inside. It contained a legend in the front saying you needed a 6th edition license from AT&T to receive a copy. Beyond that, I'd love to hear what others know about this detail. > > Warner [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2303 bytes --]
Ed Bradford <egbegb2@gmail.com> wrote:
> I had the orange and red books but I sold them to a fellow in Europe
> who has a Unix Museum. He also bought one of UNIX lice eggs plates.
>
> I took high resolution photos of each page before I sent them to Europe. I
> can send copies if that is legal and anyone is interested.
>
> Ed Bradford
> Pflugerville, TX
Given that the Lions book was republished for anyone to purchase a few
years back (I bought a copy, as well as having a samisdat photocopy),
I see no reason why they couldn't be freely distributed. Maybe even
added to the archives, if Warren agrees.
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3276 bytes --] Andrew - can't speak for the original, but the BTL version was red and orange and was perfect bound. But, I was not on 11x17 - it must have been printed on A3 paper, as copying was always a little funny (maybe it was on traditional 'green bar' size 14 7/8 x 11 - I don't remember - but my copy of the original was on US 11x17). Ordering it originally was difficult. I remember that we tried to order a copy for Tektronix in the summer/fall of 1979 because I had my n-th generation xerographic copy that I had brought from CMU and Tek wanted to legitimate copy. IIRC, I wrote the PO request and it bounced back from Tek purchasing because it had been denied by somebody at AT&T. We had to call the right person (Al Arms if memory serves me), and then I had the restart on the Tek side, but we did eventually get an official version - which as on my desk for a few years [Of course, we immediately made more copies -- I think I made them for Steve Glaser, Mike Zuhl, Ward Cunningham and possibly Jon if he did not yet have a copy from his BTL days]. When I left Tek I gave the original Tektronix copy of the two books to Terry Laskodi. I have wondered what happened to that copy after he tragically died in the early 1980s. I fear it was tossed by someone that had no idea what its value was. Clem On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 2:44 AM Andrew Hume <andrew@humeweb.com> wrote: > i was a TA for the course which used this as a textbook. > my memory is little faded on this (it was on the other side of my stroke), > but i believe they were perfect bound (cloth strip and glue) and had > two different colors for the covers (i want to say orange and red). > they might have been just stapled but they were thick enough that staples > might have been insufficient. > > i certainly remember john printing them off on the DEC printer. > > as for the permissions, i can’t recall anything at the time (this was > about 45 years ago), > but do remember the fuss at the Labs when Bell Labs started printing their > own > high security copies just a couple of years later. > > andrew hume > > > On Nov 1, 2020, at 9:07 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote: > > > > Warner Losh and I have been discussing the early history of John > > Lions' "A commentary on the Sixth Edition UNIX Operating System". > > I've been hosting Warren Toomey's version (with some correction of > > scan errors) at http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/ for > > some years now, and my understanding had been that the book hadn't > > been published, just photocopied, until Warren posted it on > > alt.folklore.computers in 1994. But now it seems that the "book" had > > been published by UNSW when Lions held the course, and only later was > > the license revoked. Does anybody have any insights? What > > restrictions were there on its distribution? What was the format? > > Was it a real book, or just bound notes? > > > > Greg > > -- > > Sent from my desktop computer. > > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key. > > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. > > This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program > > reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4597 bytes --]
There also exists a latter-day AT&T version of the Lions book. White cover with deathstar logo; standard US letter- sized paper, perfect-bound along the short edge. Two volumes: one for the source code, one for the commentary. I have a copy, and I bet Andrew does too: as I remember, he got a handful of them from Judy Macor (who used to handle licensing requests--I remember speaking to her on the phone once in my pre-Labs days) when she was clearing old stuff out of her office, and I nabbed one. Norman Wilson Toronto ON
On Mon, 2 Nov 2020, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
> Warner Losh and I have been discussing the early history of John Lions'
> "A commentary on the Sixth Edition UNIX Operating System". I've been
> hosting Warren Toomey's version (with some correction of scan errors) at
> http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/ for some years now, and
> my understanding had been that the book hadn't been published, just
> photocopied, until Warren posted it on alt.folklore.computers in 1994.
> But now it seems that the "book" had been published by UNSW when Lions
> held the course, and only later was the license revoked. Does anybody
> have any insights? What restrictions were there on its distribution?
> What was the format? Was it a real book, or just bound notes?
Nroff, in bound notes at the time; it did not come out in book format
until later (I suppose that it depends upon your definition of "book" vs.
"bound notes"... I was involved in it (you'll see my name in the
credits).
I helped to proof-read it, and I lent him our LA-100 for the draft copy.
He was one of the best Comp Sci lecturers that I ever had, along with Ken
Robinson (no longer with us) and Graham McMahon (ditto).
-- Dave
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1720 bytes --] On Monday, 2 November 2020 at 4:04:21 -0700, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: > Ed Bradford <egbegb2@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I had the orange and red books but I sold them to a fellow in Europe >> who has a Unix Museum. He also bought one of UNIX lice eggs plates. >> >> I took high resolution photos of each page before I sent them to Europe. I >> can send copies if that is legal and anyone is interested. >> >> Ed Bradford >> Pflugerville, TX > > Given that the Lions book was republished for anyone to purchase a few > years back (I bought a copy, as well as having a samisdat photocopy), > I see no reason why they couldn't be freely distributed. Maybe even > added to the archives, if Warren agrees. Yes, it's freely available now, as of about 2002. You can download it from http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/ . My question related to a discussion about its copyright status when it was written, and how it was published. Warren's photos conveniently show the title page (with dedication by Lions himself) with the text This document may contain information covered by one or more licenses, copyright and non-disclosure agreements. Circulation of this document is restricted to holders of a license for the UNIX Software System from Western Electric. All other circulation or reproduction is prohibited. Since the release of the Ancient Unix license in 2002, this no longer applies, of course. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 163 bytes --]