From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10528 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2020 17:06:46 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Dec 2020 17:06:46 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 642F7944D5; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 03:06:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBFB493D29; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 03:06:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 43B0A93D29; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 03:06:22 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 441 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 03:06:21 AEST Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86D8F93D28 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 03:06:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: from callcc.thunk.org (pool-72-74-133-215.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [72.74.133.215]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 0B9GwstA016429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 9 Dec 2020 11:58:55 -0500 Received: by callcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 58D8A420136; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 11:58:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 11:58:54 -0500 From: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" To: Clem Cole Message-ID: <20201209165854.GK52960@mit.edu> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [TUHS] Were cron and at done at the same time? Or one before the other? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 10:40:19AM -0500, Clem Cole wrote: > My point is that "intelligent design" doesn't necessarily guarantee > goodness or for that matter,complete logical thinking. There are some really great quotes, mostly from Linus, but I saw at least one from Larry McVoy, here, on the subject of "Linux is all about evolution, not intelligent design" here: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmdA5WkDNALetBn4iFeSepHjdLGJdxPBwZyY47ir1bZGAK/comp/evolution.html One of the quotes from Linus that is most pertinent for TUHS from the above: > There was a overall architecture, from Dennis and Ken. Ask them. I'll bet you five bucks they'll agree with me, not with you. I've talked to both, but not really about this particular issue, so I might lose, but I think I've got the much better odds. If you want to see a system that was more thoroughly _designed_, you should probably point not to Dennis and Ken, but to systems like L4 and Plan-9, and people like Jochen Liedtk and Rob Pike. And notice how they aren't all that popular or well known? "Design" is like a religion - too much of it makes you inflexibly and unpopular. The very architecture of UNIX has very much been an evolution. Sure, there are some basic ideas, but basic ideas do not make a system. - Ted