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From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: [TUHS] FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 10:11:19 +1100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20210130231119.GA33905@eureka.lemis.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20210130222854.GN4227@mcvoy.com>

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On Saturday, 30 January 2021 at 14:28:54 -0800, Larry McVoy wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 04:28:26PM -0500, Clem Cole wrote:
>> If I could get the day-2-day
>> applications that I need to work on FreeBSD, I suspect I would be there in
>> a heartbeat.
>
> I dunno about that.  I tried out FreeBSD a couple of years ago when
> Netflix was flirting with me.  The installer hasn't seen any loving in
> 30 years it would seem.  The disk setup tool sucks just as bad as it
> did back in 1988.

You could be right there, for some value of 1988 (FreeBSD came into
being in 1992).  The tools work without being good.  But how often do
you use them?  I've been using FreeBSD since the beginning, and I
can't recall when I last used the disk partitioning tool, though I'm
sure that when I did I overrode a lot of (all?) the suggestions.

> I remember when Linux was this bad in the .90ish releases.  A long
> time ago.  Now their install is painless, it's every bit as good as
> Windows and maybe better.

FWIW, I find Microsoft "Windows" installation terminally confusing
(that's what you were talking about, right?).  And I've run into
serious problems with various Linux installations too.  That doesn't
make the FreeBSD tools better, but maybe it relativizes it.

> And it got that way fast, I remember doing an install on some
> machine around 1998 or 1999, I didn't have a mouse plugged in, no
> worries, you could just move around with the keyboard.  X11 came up
> as part of the install, the entire install was graphical and
> seamless.

The FreeBSD installer *does* install X if you select it.

> FreeBSD is stuck in the 1990's in terms of user interface.

You're still talking about the installer, aren't you?  The normal user
interface is via the shell, which hasn't changed, and for a good
reason.

> They've done some good stuff in the kernel but it's not an end user
> system,

There I have to agree with you.  A little TLC would go a long way.
But I hope that you're not advocating the "change your GUI with your
underwear" attitude that Microsoft, Apple and many Linux distros
have.  One of the reasons I don't use Linux is because every time I
try, the interface has changed.

Greg
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  reply	other threads:[~2021-01-30 23:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 70+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-01-25 11:10 [TUHS] Favorite unix design principles? Tyler Adams
2021-01-25 12:32 ` Steve Nickolas
2021-01-26  2:06   ` M Douglas McIlroy
2021-01-26  2:53     ` Steve Nickolas
2021-01-26 10:22     ` Tyler Adams
2021-01-26 12:26       ` John P. Linderman
2021-01-26 15:23       ` Clem Cole
2021-01-26 16:00         ` Niklas Karlsson
2021-01-26 16:13           ` Adam Thornton
     [not found]       ` <CAKH6PiXKjksEpQOMMMQTbcsMvX2thz3WzqjoRWJAsXnZ4Eq_iQ@mail.gmail.com>
2021-01-30 19:01         ` Tyler Adams
2021-01-30 19:50           ` Jon Steinhart
2021-01-30 20:06             ` Tyler Adams
2021-01-30 21:28               ` Clem Cole
2021-01-30 21:42                 ` Dave Horsfall
2021-01-30 21:45                 ` Tyler Adams
2021-01-30 22:31                   ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-30 22:28                 ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-30 23:11                   ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey [this message]
2021-01-30 23:17                     ` [TUHS] FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?) Larry McVoy
2021-01-30 23:22                       ` Warner Losh
2021-01-30 23:31                         ` [TUHS] [SPAM] " Larry McVoy
2021-01-30 23:37                           ` Jon Steinhart
2021-01-30 23:54                             ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-31 12:23                               ` [TUHS] [SPAM] Re: FreeBSD behind the times? Dermot Tynan
2021-01-31  0:00                             ` [TUHS] [SPAM] Re: FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?) Bakul Shah
2021-02-09  2:15                         ` [TUHS] " Will Senn
2021-02-09  2:16                           ` Will Senn
2021-02-09  2:30                             ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2021-01-31  0:39                     ` Steve Nickolas
2021-01-31  1:47                     ` Will Senn
2021-01-31  2:25                       ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-31  2:52                         ` Will Senn
2021-01-31  3:00                           ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-31  3:06                             ` Will Senn
2021-01-31  3:32                               ` John Cowan
2021-02-04  5:43                         ` Dave Horsfall
2021-02-04  6:10                           ` Angus Robinson
2021-02-04  7:46                             ` Andy Kosela
2021-02-04 22:25                             ` Dave Horsfall
2021-02-04 15:45                           ` Will Senn
2021-02-04 16:03                             ` Henry Bent
2021-02-04 16:32                             ` Dan Cross
2021-02-04 16:49                               ` Will Senn
2021-02-04 17:46                               ` Larry McVoy
2021-02-04 18:41                               ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-04 22:28                                 ` George Michaelson
2021-02-04 22:41                                   ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-05  0:33                                   ` Larry McVoy
2021-02-05  5:17                                     ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-05 14:18                                       ` Larry McVoy
2021-02-05 18:16                                         ` Warner Losh
2021-02-05 18:21                                         ` ron minnich
2021-02-06  0:03                                         ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-06  2:06                                           ` Dan Cross
2021-02-06  3:01                                             ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-06  1:18                                         ` John Gilmore
2021-02-06  1:43                                           ` joe mcguckin
2021-02-06  1:55                                           ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-05 20:50                             ` Dave Horsfall
2021-02-06  0:21                               ` Brad Spencer
2021-02-06  2:22                               ` Rico Pajarola
2021-02-06  2:55                                 ` Larry McVoy
2021-02-06  3:07                                   ` Will Senn
2021-02-27  8:54                                   ` Stuart Remphrey
2021-02-06  4:55                               ` John Cowan
2021-02-04  7:46                         ` Chris Torek
2021-02-04 15:47                           ` Will Senn
2021-02-11 21:01                         ` Angel M Alganza
2021-01-30 23:09                 ` [TUHS] Favorite unix design principles? John Cowan
2021-01-30 23:22                   ` Jon Steinhart

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