From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 7636 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2021 23:18:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Jan 2021 23:18:08 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 756AE9C835; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 09:18:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F0B9C653; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 09:17:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9FC559C653; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 09:17:42 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 381 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 09:17:41 AEST Received: from lax.lemis.com (www.lemis.com [45.32.70.18]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 761E99C63D for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 09:17:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from eureka.lemis.com (aussie-gw.lemis.com [167.179.139.35]) by lax.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 055B0280A2; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 23:11:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eureka.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 5D3EB2635BC; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 10:11:19 +1100 (AEDT) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 10:11:19 +1100 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Larry McVoy Message-ID: <20210130231119.GA33905@eureka.lemis.com> References: <202101301950.10UJoWeA456408@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20210130222854.GN4227@mcvoy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210130222854.GN4227@mcvoy.com> Organization: LEMIS, 29 Stones Road, Dereel, VIC, Australia Phone: +61-3-5309-0418 Mobile: +61-490-494-038. Use only as instructed. WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) Subject: [TUHS] FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday, 30 January 2021 at 14:28:54 -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: > On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 04:28:26PM -0500, Clem Cole wrote: >> If I could get the day-2-day >> applications that I need to work on FreeBSD, I suspect I would be there in >> a heartbeat. > > I dunno about that. I tried out FreeBSD a couple of years ago when > Netflix was flirting with me. The installer hasn't seen any loving in > 30 years it would seem. The disk setup tool sucks just as bad as it > did back in 1988. You could be right there, for some value of 1988 (FreeBSD came into being in 1992). The tools work without being good. But how often do you use them? I've been using FreeBSD since the beginning, and I can't recall when I last used the disk partitioning tool, though I'm sure that when I did I overrode a lot of (all?) the suggestions. > I remember when Linux was this bad in the .90ish releases. A long > time ago. Now their install is painless, it's every bit as good as > Windows and maybe better. FWIW, I find Microsoft "Windows" installation terminally confusing (that's what you were talking about, right?). And I've run into serious problems with various Linux installations too. That doesn't make the FreeBSD tools better, but maybe it relativizes it. > And it got that way fast, I remember doing an install on some > machine around 1998 or 1999, I didn't have a mouse plugged in, no > worries, you could just move around with the keyboard. X11 came up > as part of the install, the entire install was graphical and > seamless. The FreeBSD installer *does* install X if you select it. > FreeBSD is stuck in the 1990's in terms of user interface. You're still talking about the installer, aren't you? The normal user interface is via the shell, which hasn't changed, and for a good reason. > They've done some good stuff in the kernel but it's not an end user > system, There I have to agree with you. A little TLC would go a long way. But I hope that you're not advocating the "change your GUI with your underwear" attitude that Microsoft, Apple and many Linux distros have. One of the reasons I don't use Linux is because every time I try, the interface has changed. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEARECAAYFAmAV55cACgkQIubykFB6QiP0AQCfdU+NH/Aa7Ek70k5lLKkbLlxv /H0AnjR8PTZ0zZ6fSBsmPk4fbGbTETh+ =ppPB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G--