From: Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com>
To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] [SPAM] Re: FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 15:31:18 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20210130233117.GR4568@mcvoy.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfrzZrHeyuGFevGCaeHk7QfiBj7+jZGrB2MQ+N6tYW0vYw@mail.gmail.com>
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 04:22:49PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:19 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 10:11:19AM +1100, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
> > > > I remember when Linux was this bad in the .90ish releases. A long
> > > > time ago. Now their install is painless, it's every bit as good as
> > > > Windows and maybe better.
> > >
> > > FWIW, I find Microsoft "Windows" installation terminally confusing
> > > (that's what you were talking about, right?). And I've run into
> > > serious problems with various Linux installations too. That doesn't
> > > make the FreeBSD tools better, but maybe it relativizes it.
> >
> > Um, my mother could install any Linux system today and 10-20 years ago.
> > There is not the slightest chance that she could install FreeBSD.
>
> I find that hard to believe. The defaults just work on the vast majority of
> systems, even if the interface is text-based and not a fancy GUI...
I speak from experience of trying to install FreeBSD on a netflix server
a couple of years back. It wasn't pleasant and it seems pretty identical
to the installer I used decades ago.
> > > > FreeBSD is stuck in the 1990's in terms of user interface.
> > >
> > > You're still talking about the installer, aren't you?
> >
> > Yup. If FreeBSD wants anyone to use it, fix that installer. 99.99%
> > of people would give up after seeing that, you'd never get them to
> > userland.
>
> No argument there... Part of the problem is that, up until relatively
> lately, the whole X experience sucked really badly on FreeBSD. Now that it
> doesn't suck, it's time for a re-evaluation...
It's 20 years past the time for that re-evaluation. Seriously, Linux
distros have been installing in X for at least 20 years, I think maybe
more. If they can do it....
> > > > They've done some good stuff in the kernel but it's not an end user
> > > > system,
> > >
> > > There I have to agree with you. A little TLC would go a long way.
> > > But I hope that you're not advocating the "change your GUI with your
> > > underwear" attitude that Microsoft, Apple and many Linux distros
> > > have. One of the reasons I don't use Linux is because every time I
> > > try, the interface has changed.
> >
> > Try xubuntu, that's what I use. Pretty light weight UI but all the
> > parts are there and it doesn't change much.
>
> But yet it's not stuck?
Nope, it's not remotely stuck. I get it, you like FreeBSD. That's fine
but be honest about where it is. How many of the developers with a commit
bit actually run FreeBSD on their desktop and laptops? As their daily
platform?
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-01-30 23:31 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 70+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-01-25 11:10 [TUHS] Favorite unix design principles? Tyler Adams
2021-01-25 12:32 ` Steve Nickolas
2021-01-26 2:06 ` M Douglas McIlroy
2021-01-26 2:53 ` Steve Nickolas
2021-01-26 10:22 ` Tyler Adams
2021-01-26 12:26 ` John P. Linderman
2021-01-26 15:23 ` Clem Cole
2021-01-26 16:00 ` Niklas Karlsson
2021-01-26 16:13 ` Adam Thornton
[not found] ` <CAKH6PiXKjksEpQOMMMQTbcsMvX2thz3WzqjoRWJAsXnZ4Eq_iQ@mail.gmail.com>
2021-01-30 19:01 ` Tyler Adams
2021-01-30 19:50 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-01-30 20:06 ` Tyler Adams
2021-01-30 21:28 ` Clem Cole
2021-01-30 21:42 ` Dave Horsfall
2021-01-30 21:45 ` Tyler Adams
2021-01-30 22:31 ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-30 22:28 ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-30 23:11 ` [TUHS] FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2021-01-30 23:17 ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-30 23:22 ` Warner Losh
2021-01-30 23:31 ` Larry McVoy [this message]
2021-01-30 23:37 ` [TUHS] [SPAM] " Jon Steinhart
2021-01-30 23:54 ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-31 12:23 ` [TUHS] [SPAM] Re: FreeBSD behind the times? Dermot Tynan
2021-01-31 0:00 ` [TUHS] [SPAM] Re: FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?) Bakul Shah
2021-02-09 2:15 ` [TUHS] " Will Senn
2021-02-09 2:16 ` Will Senn
2021-02-09 2:30 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2021-01-31 0:39 ` Steve Nickolas
2021-01-31 1:47 ` Will Senn
2021-01-31 2:25 ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-31 2:52 ` Will Senn
2021-01-31 3:00 ` Larry McVoy
2021-01-31 3:06 ` Will Senn
2021-01-31 3:32 ` John Cowan
2021-02-04 5:43 ` Dave Horsfall
2021-02-04 6:10 ` Angus Robinson
2021-02-04 7:46 ` Andy Kosela
2021-02-04 22:25 ` Dave Horsfall
2021-02-04 15:45 ` Will Senn
2021-02-04 16:03 ` Henry Bent
2021-02-04 16:32 ` Dan Cross
2021-02-04 16:49 ` Will Senn
2021-02-04 17:46 ` Larry McVoy
2021-02-04 18:41 ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-04 22:28 ` George Michaelson
2021-02-04 22:41 ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-05 0:33 ` Larry McVoy
2021-02-05 5:17 ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-05 14:18 ` Larry McVoy
2021-02-05 18:16 ` Warner Losh
2021-02-05 18:21 ` ron minnich
2021-02-06 0:03 ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-06 2:06 ` Dan Cross
2021-02-06 3:01 ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-06 1:18 ` John Gilmore
2021-02-06 1:43 ` joe mcguckin
2021-02-06 1:55 ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-05 20:50 ` Dave Horsfall
2021-02-06 0:21 ` Brad Spencer
2021-02-06 2:22 ` Rico Pajarola
2021-02-06 2:55 ` Larry McVoy
2021-02-06 3:07 ` Will Senn
2021-02-27 8:54 ` Stuart Remphrey
2021-02-06 4:55 ` John Cowan
2021-02-04 7:46 ` Chris Torek
2021-02-04 15:47 ` Will Senn
2021-02-11 21:01 ` Angel M Alganza
2021-01-30 23:09 ` [TUHS] Favorite unix design principles? John Cowan
2021-01-30 23:22 ` Jon Steinhart
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