From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 17134 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2021 22:54:31 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 16 Feb 2021 22:54:31 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 8D37F9CA6F; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 08:54:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5E539C83A; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 08:53:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 3FBAA9C83A; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 08:53:38 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 411 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 08:53:37 AEST Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 688779BA4D for ; Wed, 17 Feb 2021 08:53:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: by sdaoden.eu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 31F3916057; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 23:46:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 23:46:43 +0100 From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Jon Steinhart Message-ID: <20210216224643.p5_uK%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: <202102151956.11FJuRIh3079869@darkstar.fourwinds.com> References: <202102151956.11FJuRIh3079869@darkstar.fourwinds.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jon Steinhart , TUHS main list User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.21-105-g4b55359c OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. Subject: Re: [TUHS] Abstractions X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Jon Steinhart wrote in <202102151956.11FJuRIh3079869@darkstar.fourwinds.com>: |Was thinking about our recent discussion about system call bloat and such. |Seemed to me that there was some argument that it was needed in order to |support modern needs. As I tried to say, I think that a good part of the |bloat stemmed from we-need-to-add-this-to-support-that thinking instead |of what's-the-best-way-to-extend-the-system-to-support-this-need thinking. | |So if y'all are up for it, I'd like to have a discussion on what abstrac\ |tions |would be appropriate in order to meet modern needs. Any takers? Proper program exit integer status codes. Now that "set -o pipefail" is a standardized feature of POSIX shells all that is needed are programs which properly handle errors and also report that to the outside. This is very hard, especially when put over existing codebases. But also new code. For example i use BTRFS (with a long term perspective to switch to ZFS, because of restartable snapshot sends, and also because of ZFS encrypted partitions to replace my several encfs-encrypted on-demand storages, these now can even be shared in between FreeBSD and Linux), (i use it at all because it ships with the Linux kernel, can be compiled-in, is copyright-compatible, that is i wanted to test that coming from over two decades of ext2/3/4 on Linux and of course the default of FreeBSD, and i really drive the entire thing with subvolumes, only the EFI boot partition is truly separate), anyhow, receiving snapshots can fail but the snapshot counts as having been properly received, and no exit status whatsoever will report the failure. (At least in my practical experiences.) Easy scriptability with proper (also meaning automatically interpretable) error reports. --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)