From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 13895 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2021 20:40:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 5 Apr 2021 20:40:29 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 22B409CACF; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 06:40:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78949C883; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 06:39:57 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B65519C883; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 06:39:56 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C0569C83D for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 06:39:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id E3A5935E1C7; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 13:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 13:39:54 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Clem Cole Message-ID: <20210405203954.GP28660@mcvoy.com> References: <20210404052939.xivuinlcugqb5zde@localhost.localdomain> <19643.1617646039@hop.toad.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Subject: Re: [TUHS] How to Kill a Technical Conference X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 03:30:25PM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 2:08 PM John Gilmore wrote: > > The paper was rejected by the program committee, on the objection that > > "ports aren't research". So > > the pro-academic, anti-engineering mindset was already in place back then. > IMHO, USENIX walked away from a group that they should have been > trying to cultivate. In 1999 I was program committee chair for Linux Expo which was trying to sort of be Usenix for Linux. I had been a paper reviewer for a number of Usenix conferences (I still have my review notes for those papers, I was a cocky pain in the ass that was full of myself, dunno why anyone put up with my nonsense but they did). I had the pleasure of reviewing this: http://mcvoy.com/lm/papers/rtlmanifesto.pdf The summary is Victor slipped a real time kernel underneath Linux and ran all of Linux, kernel and userspace, as the real time idle process. It worked fantastically well and was really clever. If you understand time sharing and you understand hard real time, trying to shovel hard real time into a time sharing system is like trying to prove 1 + 1 != 2. They are trying to do two completely different things and if you are good at one, you'll be bad at the other. Victor showed a way to have your cake and eat it too, it was brilliant. The paper was rejected and I believe it was partially because Victor wasn't well known in Unix circles, he wasn't "in the club". If Bill Joy had written the same paper I'm 100% sure it would have been published. Which lead to me campaigning for blind reviews. Back to Linux expo, it was a success, some of the papers weren't up to Usenix standards, but many of them were (I can dig up the proceedings if anyone cares). Whoever was running Usenix contacted me after seeing the success of Linux Expo and begged me to bring those people to Usenix. I was offered a board seat, I could be reviewer for life, anything I wanted. All I asked for was blind reviews. Didn't ask anything for myself, just blind reviews so you could be a nobody and get judged on the quaility of your work rather than your name. Apparently, I could get anything I wanted except that. I've had nothing to do with Usenix ever since. Clem came after whoever it was and has told me he cleaned things up quite a bit. If I had known him back then maybe I would have come back.