From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,WIKI_IMG autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 3513 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2021 15:49:17 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Jun 2021 15:49:17 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7101D9C1AF; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 01:49:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 077CA9BD19; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 01:48:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CB96B9BD19; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 01:48:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93DA09BD16 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 01:48:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from kent.sdaoden.eu (kent.sdaoden.eu [10.5.0.2]) by sdaoden.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 230EB16056; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:48:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: by kent.sdaoden.eu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 70AC9116AA; Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:48:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:48:41 +0200 From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Message-ID: <20210619154841.Lcgnr%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: <20210619075735.GQ23809@eureka.lemis.com> References: <20210615221659.ltbL6%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <20210616215713.f1CA8%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <20210619075735.GQ23809@eureka.lemis.com> Mail-Followup-To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey , John Cowan , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society , Bakul Shah , Harald Arnesen , Niklas Karlsson User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.22-153-g062ff456ec OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [TUHS] =?utf-8?b?QnVncywgQsODwrbDg8K2Z2UgYW5kIEJvZ2V5bWVuICh3?= =?utf-8?q?as=3A_70th_anniversary_of_=28official=29_programming_errors=29?= X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society , Bakul Shah Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote in <20210619075735.GQ23809@eureka.lemis.com>: |On Friday, 18 June 2021 at 16:19:37 -0400, John Cowan wrote: |> On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 5:57 PM Steffen Nurpmeso \ |> wrote: |> |>> (Only to clarify that ???b=C3=83=C2=B6gge??? is not a German word to t= he best \ (Your mail was LATIN1 yet the data was not it seems.) |>> of my |>> knowledge. I was looking, as it sounded so =C3=82=C2=BBnorthern=C3=82= =C2=AB, |> |> And so it is: it's Low Saxon, and also exists in the compound form |> "b=C3=83=C2=B6ggel-mann", plainly cognate to British English "bogeyman"= , American |> English "boogeyman". | |Well, there are ways to check these things, especially since Steffen |came up with alternatives. As they say, =C3=A2=E2=90=A6=E2=90=A6Was wei= =C3=83=E2=90=A6 Duden?=C3=A2=E2=90=A6=E2=90=A6. | |From https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Boeoegg: | | wohl gek=C3=83=C2=BCrzt aus =C3=83=C2=A4lter schweizerisch B=C3=83=C2= =B6ggelmann, B=C3=83=C2=B6limann =3D | Schreckgestalt, Kobold, Herkunft ungekl=C3=83=C2=A4rt; vgl. als =C3=83= =C2=A4hnliche | Bezeichnung englisch bog(e)y (man) =3D Schreckgespenst, litauisch | bu=C3=85=C2=BE=C3=A1=C2=BB=C2=B9s =3D (ausgestopfte) Schreckgestalt | |In other words, a Swiss German word with a derivation similar to what Well, informative. I am not a Germanist. But *i* do not *think* that a Swiss (Alemannian?) word "B=C3=B6=C3=B6gge" (that i never have heard, a Carnival Goblin mask, see [1-4], where [2-4] are "Larve"nmasken, referring to "Gespenst" aka "Ghost") is related to the family name "B=C3=B6gge" in mostly northern Germany. Schwaben/Alemannen on the one hand, and Sachsen, Friesen, Westfalen, Franken and who knows which tribes live "normally" where the name distributes[5]. At [5] one can see a very small piece of land at the bottom, near Lake Constance, where the name distributes. Maybe someone was thrilled after visiting that land during Carnival and decided to move there -- haha! --, i do not know. You know, Alemannen Carnival, they sing things like "kill the cat!" or something, and have cat fur on their belt! Listen, Hackers!! ...yeah, twenty years ago there was an uprising all across Germany after Alemannian Carnival was shortly seen in the most widely watched TV news, iirc, where such a masked one was jumping around and singing this. Searching the net i find mostly nothing but [6], and there you can read Miau-Zunft Freiburg 1. Die Website www.miau-zunft.de ist nicht mehr erreichbar. Die Zunft hat bundesweit Proteste ausgel=C3=B6st, da sie gewagt hatte, im Internet auf ihre Katzenfell-H=C3=A4stradition hinzuweisen 2. Zum BZ-Artikel vom 22.12.2001: Katzenjammer bei der Miau-Zunft 3. Auch unser G=C3=A4stebuch wurde vom Katzenjammer erfasst. Wie soll dies weitergehen? Sagen Sie uns doch Ihre Meinung 4. Beim Rosenmontagsumzug am 11.2.2002 war die Miau-Zunft nicht feige und trotz aller Bedrohungen tapfer dabei. Aber nur im K=C3=A4fig-Wagen. Welch ein Katzenjammer! That is not that, but nonetheless, part of the nationwide protests ("bundesweit[e] Proteste") that seems to have been. Cancel culture, everywhere. You need a lobby though, fur animals usually not have; nor have cows, pigs, chicken, it is your fault you have to read this vegetarian pamphlet. Coming back to "B=C3=B6ge" [7] aka "Boege" [5] as a name, together about 1100 entries twenty years ago (data from 2002). For [7] there are some more in the Alemannian / Swabian area. I do not know. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Narrenzunft_Tettnang_Hopfennarr_N= arrentreffen_Me%C3%9Fkirch_2006.jpg [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Tsch%C3%A4gg%C3%A= 4ttu-Larven_%28Masken%29.jpg [3] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larve_(Maske)#/media/Datei:Picswiss_BS-= 50-23.jpg [4] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larve_(Maske)#/media/Datei:Biss.jpg [5] http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Boege_(Familienname) [6] https://freiburg-schwarzwald.de/littenweiler/narren.htm [7] http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/B%C3%B6ge_(Familienname) |you expected. I hadn't expected that (the Swiss connection). The OED |entry is way out of date (1887) and has nothing useful to say except: | | Found in literature only recently; old people vouched (1887) for its | use in the nursery as early as 1825, but only as proper name (sense | 1). Possibly a southern nursery form of bogle , boggle , and boggard | , or going back like them to a simpler form which, as mentioned | under bog n.1 and bogle n., may be a variant of bugge , bug n.1 | =C3=A2=E2=90=A6=E2=90=A6terror, bugbear, scarecrow=C3=A2=E2=90=A6=E2=90= =A6. But in the absence of evidence, | positive statements concerning its relation to these words cannot be | made. --End of <20210619075735.GQ23809@eureka.lemis.com> Harald Arnesen wrote in <2419313d-a951-ba2d-48a4-6b0bf225f2eb@gmail.com>: |Steffen Nurpmeso [18.06.2021 23:00]: | |> To me it sounds rather like a modification of "Bogen", which can |> mean quite some different things itself, from a "bend" (so the |> profession of a wood-bender comes to mind at a glance, "b=C3=B6ge" is |> also the conjugation of "bending" "er b=C3=B6ge" thus "he would bend") | |In Norway, "b=C3=B8g" is an older, derogative description of a homosexual |male. Fits in with the German meaning "bent". Hmmm. Well, given the zappiness and horniness that often can be found in this corner, the losses we had due to the golden Californian gang bangs, let me only think of the wonderful Bruce Chatwin here, there it maybe was a rape, it is terrible!, but given the sheer amount of popping and other drugs in this culture i am better silent know. |Hilsen Harald --End of <2419313d-a951-ba2d-48a4-6b0bf225f2eb@gmail.com> Niklas Karlsson wrote in : |Den l=C3=B6r 19 juni 2021 kl 15:36 skrev Harald Arnesen : ... |> In Norway, "b=C3=B8g" is an older, derogative description of a homosexu= al |> male. Fits in with the German meaning "bent". | |"B=C3=B6g" means a homosexual male in Sweden also. It used to be derogato= ry |but has been adopted by the gay community itself, so it's really just |descriptive now (although I'm pretty sure kids still use it as an insult). So *i* could *imagine* Norwegians pronounce their "b=C3=B8g" and Svedes pronounce their "B=C3=B6g" maybe a bit like "Bock", short and tough. Bo-ck, not Booo-ck (english: not buuuu-ck, o!=3Du), or so. The German "Bock" is a "Ram", the "B=C3=B6ckchen" its minimization (often not advisable!), and ramification of a Ram is often seen as desirable (wham! bam! thank you ma'am!, though that false jobsite, in this case). Rams they have in Friesland aka Low Saxony. Oh, the wonderful "Heidschnucke" ("German heath"), yes, [s]he lives there, a "northern short-tailed [Heh! sic] sheep". These horns can "bocken" aka "buck"ing aka is in the season. |Niklas --End of Ah nice weekend everybody. Ciao from Germany (albeit Hesse[n]), --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)