From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 12806 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2021 23:57:46 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Jul 2021 23:57:46 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BBF089C88D; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 09:57:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8EA9C864; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 09:57:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 474229C864; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 09:56:22 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 395 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Sat, 03 Jul 2021 09:56:21 AEST Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50E599C861 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 09:56:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: from kent.sdaoden.eu (kent.sdaoden.eu [10.5.0.2]) by sdaoden.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E14616056; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 01:49:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by kent.sdaoden.eu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 55C9F11A91; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 01:49:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 01:49:41 +0200 Author: Steffen Nurpmeso From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Steve Nickolas Message-ID: <20210702234941.MjMt0%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: References: <20210702213648.GW817@mcvoy.com> Mail-Followup-To: Steve Nickolas , The Unix Heritage Society mailing list User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.22-168-g5c45763050 OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. Subject: Re: [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Steve Nickolas wrote in : |On Fri, 2 Jul 2021, Henry Bent wrote: |> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 at 17:38, Larry McVoy wrote: |> |>> As I started reading it I found plenty to disagree with in the first few |>> paragraphs but they completely lost me at "After all, moving from System |>> V init scripts to systemd has arguably improvedthe Linux boot sequence." |>> |>> Um, no, just, no. |> |> After rattling around in the back of a train car with nothing but my |> thoughts, I emerged and said: |> |> "systemd is a pox on our way of life" |> |> and then promptly rolled over and went back to sleep. |> |> -Henry |> | |The Linux distro I use does use systemd but I can ignore it and go on with |my life as if it were still running sysvinit. So it's not that big a deal |to me. | |I'd prefer that they kept sysvinit, but eh. What's that saying? "Those |who fail to understand Unix are condemned to recreate it, poorly" ? Well iwd(8) for example that i happen to have installed as a replacement for wpa_supplicant just today (because .. i installed my beloved sysvinit/BSD rc based CRUX-Linux on a new spare laptop, a 18 month old but totally new IdeaPad S145, and since i do not have initrd kernels but compile an all-builtin one i use a generic kernel in order to lsmod(8) in order to be able to create a custom kernel with a modified "make localyesmod" that Linux supports, here ArchLinux 2020.12, because AlpineLinux did not do it, somehow, and whereas i hate that ArchLinux now that all old developers fled does not even ship install instructions it actually does come with iwd/iwctl, and it happened that iwctl looked so much better to me than wpa_cli of wpa_supplicant, that i took the time and replaced there here, iwctl has at least one bug though, iwd ditto, and i must say that whereas iwd is much smaller is has a larger memory footprint than wpa_supplicant, and .. whatever), and note that iwd neither supports a normal syslog nor command line parameters to configure paths etc., the latter have to come in via environment if they shall, and the manual says these are "normally provided by systemd" (which is not true .. for me). And no syslog at all! No PID file handling. And bugs even though Intel.com paid for it. I mean "get up, stand up", they do a thousand things and not seldom i wonder. @Tony Finch: wonderful reading of the first two pages, thanks for this link! It seems Knuth always had "a touch" for writing good, and for good writing. P.S.: not that do-one-thing's like sysklogd are bug free, for example the sysklogd CRUX now uses/offers introduced a new bug that causes /var/log/kernel to print monotonic clock times or what, mind you, just now it is "Jun 30 13:13:16" (for "kent"). --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)