From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4053 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2021 04:37:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Jul 2021 04:37:29 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 856C49C9E7; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:37:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEAEF9C873; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:36:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 512DE9C873; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:36:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mcvoy.com (mcvoy.com [192.169.23.250]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E11669C871 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:36:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mcvoy.com (Postfix, from userid 3546) id 1507835E0AF; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:36:15 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Tomasz Rola Message-ID: <20210704043615.GE817@mcvoy.com> References: <20210702213648.GW817@mcvoy.com> <396911b232bae5938068a14fe0f7181e@firemail.de> <20210704004757.GB24671@tau1.ceti.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210704004757.GB24671@tau1.ceti.pl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Subject: Re: [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On Sun, Jul 04, 2021 at 02:47:57AM +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote: > On Sat, Jul 03, 2021 at 09:20:57AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > [...] > > Much of Unix's early evolution and thus architecture and philosophy, came > > from addressing a set of problems that people had in a historical context > > that, one could argue, aren't that relevant anymore. This is a response to Cross. You are sort of right in that we are not on uniprocessors where we disable interrupts to manage things. Unix still matters. It has mattered for a very long time, I could argue it is the most important operating system in the world. Yeah, windows won, but it didn't win on merits. In my opinion you couldn't be more wrong. We still have the same problems, we are still trying to grep an answer out of a bunch of info that has just gotten bigger. We still want to do the same things and we are doing them better with faster CPUs, memory, disks, etc. I maybe think the reason you think that things aren't relevant anymore are because young people don't get Unix, they just pile on to this framework and that framework, NONE OF WHICH THEY UNDERSTAND, they just push more stuff onto the stack. If you actually have a clue, if you can do stuff, all of that other stuff becomes fluff. Yep, some of it is useful but most of it is just there because it wants to feel important. Unix matters, the way that you can compose stuff still matters, people who can do that run circles around the people who say Unix doesn't work. My first job, they said 6 months, I did it 3 weeks by using what Unix gave me.