From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 32105 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2021 15:18:24 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 5 Jul 2021 15:18:24 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D84A89CA3C; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 01:18:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F310E9C9F1; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 01:17:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 4BB429C9F1; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 01:17:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 811A19C9F0 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 01:17:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from kent.sdaoden.eu (kent.sdaoden.eu [10.5.0.2]) by sdaoden.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAB1916059; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 17:17:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: by kent.sdaoden.eu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0827411C19; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 17:17:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 17:17:32 +0200 Author: Steffen Nurpmeso From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: George Michaelson Message-ID: <20210705151732.6PbNl%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: <20210705144314.GV817@mcvoy.com> References: <20210702213648.GW817@mcvoy.com> <20210705144314.GV817@mcvoy.com> Mail-Followup-To: George Michaelson , Larry McVoy , The Unix Heritage Society mailing list User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.22-170-g4fc3932ea4 OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. Subject: Re: [TUHS] Is C obsolete? (was Re: [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Larry McVoy wrote in <20210705144314.GV817@mcvoy.com>: |On Mon, Jul 05, 2021 at 02:23:36PM +1000, George Michaelson wrote: |> Forgive me a side note, but has it not been shown for some time that |> apart from a very gifted few people, hand-crafted machine-code is |> usually slower than the best optimising compilers these days? With out Some *BSDs moved from such to plain C code for strlen() for example, a couple of years back, yes. |> of order instruction stuff, side effects (inter-core locking) cache |> coherency &c it isn't hard to wind up using "simpler" machine code |> which performs worserer. | |I dunno where my team sat on the "gifted" scale, I like to think they |were pretty good. We ran our code through Intel's fancy C compiler and |it made less than a 1% difference vs GCC. We cared about performance |and had already done the by hand work to make the critical paths go fast. Funnily just a couple of months ago at least FreeBSD (but i think also DragonFly BSD, a tad different) moved back, on at least x86_64. (I personally no longer look nor care that much, as (a) i cannot help it anyway, (b) there are so many CPU etc. models out there. Why try to go backward because Cyrix is so good there, use code alignment of X for processor A and Y for processor B? That is just a tremendous maintenance mess, and that for free and with so few time. No. Fun fact is that my one NVME disc can read/write 1.3 gigabytes per second doing "btrfs scrub", that is i think at least four times the speed of the main memory the mentioned Cyrix had available.) --End of <20210705144314.GV817@mcvoy.com> --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)